A New MIDI Standard

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:13 pm

MIDI stands for musical instrument digital interface. The MIDI Specification 1.0 was published in August 1983. At the time digital audio was not common but now it is. The "D" for digital should include audio! When dear god will the MIDI standard be updated?

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:21 pm

Yeah, when, oh when, Dear God, Supreme Ruler of the Universes, wilt Thou send us the promised Answer and show us Thy Light Mercy and release Thy Miracles to the lost souls of Earth... and update that filthy obsolete midi protocol!

Excuse my little sarcasm... I couldn't resist... no disrespect intended ...

I also think that MIDI could use an overhaul...

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:35 pm

Trust me Yamaha will be setting another standard very soon.

That company owns Steinberg, and so many other little unknown acquisitions, it's only a matter of time.

It works so well and uses very little bandwidth, mLan was suppose to do it, but Yamaha wants all of their ducks in a row when the shooting starts. Once there seems to be a real need for single wire combination approaches, it will surely become the next standard.

I see wordclock, ADAT, AES / EBU and many other protocols being combined.

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:53 am

There is nothing wrong with MIDI, it was good enough for my ancestors, and it is good enough for me. I don't want to hear about your unnatural digital audio, with all its artifacts.

pseudojazzer · Post by **pseudojazzer** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:42 am

While i TOTALLY agree - that there is nothing wrong with midi..
i did here that the protocol is being changed from midi to midi2 - basically they are trying to update it so that some of the limitations are overcome (eg 127 banks of data...could eventually be up to 1000 or something - for yet even more choice and finer resolution).
Check this page on GM (not midi2)

http://www.midi.org/about-midi/gm/gm2_spec.shtml

I'm all for innovation and making our lives easier but i would be pi**ed off if someone like yamaha come up with some proprietary new replacement - so long as its all compatible with past (and future) releases then its all good!

apparently the technology to have more than 127 banks etc.. has been around for ages but noones got on board so to speak, personally i have never used all 127 banks in one song so either way its not gonna make a difference to me!

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:54 am

pseudojazzer - that page is about general MIDI 2 - something that's already been around for years in crappy Roland romplers. Is there something else that's actually in the works to replace MIDI itself ?

OSC is the only thing that seems like a contender - but the small number of hardware controllers are niche and ultra-geek items to say the least.

I guess what this says is that MIDI is absolutely fine. 1000's of great records have been made with it, and creativity can overcome its limitations.

Technically speaking, if you have problems with too many MIDI messages bottlenecking down 1 connection, invest in more ports! It's a hell of a lot easier than waiting for the WHOLE INDUSTRY to adopt a new technology. This kind of thing costs serious R+D money, which ends up embedded in the price of the new products.

How many people nowadays are willing to pay that money? Fuck, is even Braincell willing to pay the $ ? Somehow I think not.

The "D" for digital should include audio!

What does this mean? You want MIDI to include audio now? wtf?

In all seriousness, if you really feel that MIDI limitations are holding back your music, the solution is to get a Monome, Lemur and Max/MSP. I have the utmost admiration for people using these tools. It's not my cup of tea and not relevant to my music, but it sure is a hell of a lot more positive than sitting on your arse and moaning about how shit MIDI is

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:23 am

I don't think that including audio is outlandish. What is wrong with that? Why do we need all these cables when one cable could do it all? and why not even make it wireless with wifi? I don't think it's ridiculous in fact, I think you are being very narrow minded if you can't imagine an easier way to do things. If you want to be such a Luddite, then I suggest you sell your gear and buy an old pump organ.

Why do we need electricity? Wahhhh! Let's just use our feet to pump air through a pump organ. Yes that's it Perfect!

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:27 am

Errr... get a reality check perhaps? MLAN tried to do the MIDI+Audio thing, and failed in an epic way.

And OSC is the improved MIDI - it's here now, so why not start using it instead of talking ass on a forum?

And you strangely forgot to answer the question - would you pay the costs required for this wonderful new technology that does nothing useful whatsoever beyond putting MIDI +audio in the same pipe?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:45 am

The savings will be when you can connect your gear without having to buy extra converter boxes and cables. I have a midi interface and an audio interface with wordclock. If you add up the costs of the interfaces and cables it gets very expensive. Why not just connect directly to the computer? There is a rats nest of cables right now. Sometimes when you change gear, you have to think; Why am I getting no midi signal? Why is there no audio? Then you have to trouble shoot, perhaps untangle some cables so you can see where they are going. It's annoying as hell.

Why do we even have analog cables on digital synthesizers? That's stupid. We convert a digital signal to analog then convert it back to digital and eventually we convert it back to analog again!

If you don't see the purpose in updating the way synthesizers and computers connect to each other, then you don't have a very good imagination.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:06 am

Analog outs on digital synths - many would say they sound better, myself included. Also digital i/o has inherent non-user-friendly problems, such as clock source routing. Analog output on the other hand is simple and effective.

Putting everything in 1 cable: not sure what kind of studio you have in mind for this, but for mine it would be totally useless, because I value real gear and in many cases vintage gear.

And did I mention MLAN already?

To conclude, I'm not saying "this shit isn't needed". I'm just explaining why it isn't realistic to expect it to happen. But don't let that stop you fantasizing and ranting aimlessly.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:11 am

CV/Gate... This is what you need plus a step sequencer so you can sequence the old fashioned way, one note at a time!

pseudojazzer · Post by **pseudojazzer** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:38 am

yeah i'm sorry that link was shite - but midi 2 does exist :

http://blogs.oreilly.com/digitalmedia/2 ... di-20.html

http://www.midi.org/newsviews/hdmidipr.shtml

Apparently it has been around for a while - just not implemented - i dunno why..

i was chatting to an engineer who worked for EMI and he said he had heard of it a while back - but thats all i remember of the conversation, and not something that i know much about - hey if it aint broke and all that...

oops another link:
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=6222

Neutron · Post by **Neutron** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:32 pm

wireless usb midi is, (unfortunately maybe) probably whats going to happen.

many virtual midi cables could be paralleled can go much faster over that, and you could send audio as well. and have a total disaster like the virus TI plugin

sounds great in theory but when you get companies like novation making horrible drivers who dont play well with others, trouble is going to get worse before it gets better.

Zer · Post by **Zer** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:26 am

well it depends on other connected devices as well. If you have a logitech quick cam installed it could mess up connected ausb audio devices. USB tansfers electricity as well. Too many connections can result in a loss of your current.
That means you may experience vanished harddisks or other phenoms. It still seems better to run spearate maschines for special tasks.

skwawks · Post by **skwawks** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:37 am

Hang on boys ........I haven't really got a handle on midi 1 yet

give us old blokes a break will ya

what is lsb anyway

who the fuck needs 127 banks . whats wrong with an atm at one bank

skwawks · Post by **skwawks** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:50 am

I DONT think thats the lsb I meant

jeez that upper side band is confusing isn't it

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:56 am

I would just like a new standard with a higher resolution. For some things 128 steps is a little short - stuff like faders on mixers etc.

Zer · Post by **Zer** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:04 pm

skwawks · Post by **skwawks** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:40 pm