VDAT 2 MP3.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:05 am

I have spent the evening practicing & recording, and came out w/ a few nice takes.

Well in VDAT they are. But once I go to Goldwave to convert them the problems rear their ugly head.

Thankkgully I have one that I really like and it's a vtp. file, so I can keep trying to convert and finally figure out why this stuff sounds so crappy to me.

It's a recording where I used Wolf's 16 Channel Mixer. Rec out L & R to VDAT 1& 2.

In the channel inserts I have the gorgeous Flu_Liq w/ it's sweet reverbish / delay engaged. CW stock AutoPan is added for the 2nd insert.

It sounds sweet as pie in VDAT, but I record to Reaper then convert it as a batch file in GoldWave the panning is so overbearing it destroys the whole sound.

I have noticed that several little demo type stereo tracks sound bad lately and just suck hind tit.

Since Wolf's mixer is of a high quality, and vtp. files sound sweet, where the hell is the problem.

Frustratingly Yours,

zangsta · Post by **zangsta** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:11 am

I´m not sure, but open goldwave, go to meny at top, options, get file-format, tab says Default Save Format, and set it to something like *.mp3, 44100, 192 kbps,
wich is mostly sufficient. You can go for 48000, wich is DAT sampling-freq.

J_S

Janni · Post by **Janni** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:38 am

Are you using the "joint stereo" option?
That might mess up the mp3...
In ProTools there's an option to NOT use it...
Hope that helps...
Cheers,
Jan

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:13 am

Yes you have to join 2mono to stereo files first Jimmy,then convert to Mp3.

Janni · Post by **Janni** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:31 am

here are some useful things about mp3 encoding, I think...

http://jthz.com/mp3/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_(audio_engineering)

Sorry, but you have to copy*paste the second link...

Cheers again!

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:34 am

Thanks guys.

I have it set to 256kps, Brotha' Man Zang.

I will just start trying different options, and read thoroughly all of the provided links.

I appreciate your time guys,

Thanks.

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:26 am

also, if the Goldwave conversion is killing the sound, then Here is a great editor.

Export the wave, use Lame to mp3ise .... best, highest settings etc....

But seriously tho I do like that wave editor, and if you think Goldwave could be the problem in the chain, then try this one.

zangsta · Post by **zangsta** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:08 am

Thanks for the tip on NGWave, messia, only thing I miss on it is the VST-option.
Very fast and responsive, I like that!

Jörgen

Lima · Post by **Lima** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:23 am

Frankly, I doubt that the loss at 256kbit/s could be so evident... Maybe there's something else (some other parameters or so). Or maybe the Goldwave's routines are bad.
Jimmy could you post an uncompressed extract of something that sound particulary worse when compressed? So I'll check it out and try to do a compression using my software.

zangsta · Post by **zangsta** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:56 am

Lima wrote:Frankly, I doubt that the loss at 256kbit/s could be so evident... Maybe there's something else (some other parameters or so). Or maybe the Goldwave's routines are bad.
Jimmy could you post an uncompressed extract of something that sound particulary worse when compressed? So I'll check it out and try to do a compression using my software.

I also doubt that the problem is with Goldwave, I guess it´s in the previous steps,
going from vdat to reaper, or next, reaper-out.
Sounds like a phase-related issue, or something..
But I have only done this process once..
took left and right wav-file direct into left and right track on Goldwave.
That worked fine, but a bit cumbersome way of working.
I have considered going direct out from vdat, spdif out to dat-tape,
and work from the output file, whenever the time comes for me to do some serious mixing.
It would be great if vdat could be used as a virtual two-track master-DAT, with editing et all,....!

zangsta · Post by **zangsta** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:28 am

stardust wrote:I think you can hear the difference in A/B checks always. And in noisy sounds, stereofileds and high dynamic difference sections mp3 artefacts gets unveiled typically.

Yes, that´s right, but note that Jimmy says the panning gets ovebearing, not like what it was as vdat.
This indicates to me that the problem may be something else.

I also noted that on the mp3 that Jimmy put here with this material,
there´s hardly any panning at all, it´s all in the centre !
So it would be interresting to get Jimmy´s input on this, how he´s handled this.

Lima · Post by **Lima** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:36 am

zangsta wrote: I also noted that on the mp3 that Jimmy put here with this material,
there´s hardly any panning at all, it´s all in the centre !
So it would be interresting to get Jimmy´s input on this, how he´s handled this.

I was just wordering about a mono output issue... That's the problem IMO.

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:41 pm

Are you mixing down into REAPER, as in recording, or are you importing the two tracks from VDAT? If the later, look into pan-law.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:30 am

I am recording from the mixer into VDAT.

Then I take the tracks w/o effects and send them from VDAT back to the mixer for mastering. I am only doing stereo 2 track recordings, and it keeps me in my practice state while recording, as it is a performance and only starts becomingan overdub when I master w/ effects.

But I then take the master out and go directly to Reaper, then Goldwave.

I really think it has to be Reaper at this point.

I used Cubase 4 on one recording where I had drums, bass, Rhodes and a lead synth. That mix was pretty decent, even as a crap mp3.

Check the music thread where I had VDAT to Reaper, and VDAT to mixer, mixer to ASIO 2 / Reaper. There's a litlle differnce and it sounds slightly better, but still LAME ( No pun intended ).

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:25 am

why are you using so many steps and conversions.
record into VDAT if its only two tracks the drop them straight into goldwave or I recomend NGWave, as a stereo file and export as a wave, convert with lame.

Why are you going into reaper.

even if its a multi track recording, just record it back onto two tracks in VDAT and again open as left and right in the editor. makes sense to me.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:55 am

Messiah said............................why are you using so many steps and conversions.Record into VDAT if its only two tracks the drop them straight into goldwave or I recomend NGWave, as a stereo file and export as a wave, convert with lame."

Excellent Idea !

I will go record something into GWave w/ effects immediately and post it. I think that might prove where the faults are,

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:07 am

You don't need to record into NGwave or Goldwave. Just use the recorded files from VDAT direclty.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:51 pm

Well I have tried many different attempts, and the way I recorded this one was with an EQ to boost the highs a little more.

But I recorded dry into VDAT, then sent the 2 tracks to the mixer, which outputted stereo into Cubase 4, then converted to mp3.

It sounds much better w/ Cubase 4 @ 44.1 than w/ Reaper.

I really think that Reaper is the culprit. It's a quality app., but I must have something set up wrong w/ it. I noticed I had a nice mix w/ Cubase 4 when I mastered some drum tracks. Whenever I just wanted to record a live stereo track I'd use Reaper, and I do notice a difference. MP3's still destroy the beauty of VDAT, but it sounds better now.

Funny thing though, this is the first time I ever used STS to play with.

Damn,.. it has that VDAT sound like it's 32 bit or something. I recently upgraded Extreme Sample Converter and used it to convert my old Yamaha TX816 Electric Piano from Akai / EMU to GS3, and also to STS ( Pulsar ). It has a great interface and I plan on learning more about it. This little 16bit sample only has 2 velocity levels, soft and hard. But I was shocked at how well a 16bit sample from 12 years ago that my drummer and I recorded at Earth City Studios, sounded converted to 24bit STS, and GS3/4.

If XITE-1 / Scope 5.0 allows better memory addressing w/ STS using 64bit, that would be a great reason to use STS live. There's no difference in it's sound quality compared to Giga, or Kontackt. Imagine having 6 GB's of RAM for a real time sampler............

.

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:12 am

Yeah its like I say, record using VDAT then just use the wave editor to open the VDAT files. Tidy up the edges etc.... export as a wav.

KISS as they say.

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:00 pm

If recording into Cubase sounds different than recording into REAPER, I think there is something wrong.

What ASIO driver are you using?

What mp3 conversion are you using?

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