R.I.P. Charlton Heston

[pollux]

I can't go to school 'cause I ain't got a gun...
I can't get a gun 'cause I ain't got a job...
I can't get a job 'cause I can't go to school..

So I'm looking for a girl with a gun and a car (and a house with the cable)

Lost in America.....

[alfonso]

that's the difference between an american who understands what "freedom" is about and the rest of the world. everyone else is a subject. the american is a soveriegn and, if he understands what that means, he expects to be treated as such. unfortunately, government's promises of protection have made the average american confused and once more, enslaved just like his european brethren...................................................................................................................................................................... the state is an institution established as a promise to the people it serves, who endow the state with their own power to serve the common purpose, although the twisted inbred f*@ks who manage to sit at the top of these structures through lies and greed would sell it as the other way around. they'd like you to think that it's all subjective and that your "privileges" flow from their generosity and largess. .

I and my wife will be happy to have you and your mate in my house if you ever come to Europe , I think you should come and check how's life here. There is a sort of prejudice you have about your government as if they where a bunch of rascals to keep away....It might be true, but they are the product of your society, if you don't feel as people that you are responsible and are the foundation of their power, you are not sovereign, a couple of guns might cause a bit of trouble in some school or family, but if the "legal" power decides you have to be terminated they will take you and close you wherever they want, your colt under the tile is not going to stop them, thinking so is quite naive

In Europe, instead, we think that the power comes from a conventional agreement between the citizens and our politicians might not be saints but they reflect exactly what our society produces. We have a long story of revolutions, riots and conquers of rights through hard struggles of the whole communities as such. Our democracy, that we invented in centuries of action and thought, is precious to us and not a single politician that is disliked by the population is going to stay in charge one day more than conceded by us, no matter how much money does he have. The power is something graciously lent by the population, we pay the salary to our officers and we know it, so they have to take care of what they are payed for.
In fact we participate to the elections in much higher numbers and the pressure of the majority is real here. I don't know what you are told about Europe but it's not very precise. I suspect that you are given a gun to feel important while you are not where it really counts, in the political processes.
That's not enough here.

[the19thbear]

AMEN!- and you are welcome at my place as well

[zangsta]

Check this out, think about the implications, and then tell me that you still think it´s a bad idea to have a gun or two at home, just in case..

"Food Riots Could Spread, UN Chief Warns World

By Gary Cleland
Last Updated: 1:49am BST 09/04/2008

Rising food prices could threaten political stability around the world, the UN's leading humanitarian official said yesterday.

Sir John Holmes, the undersecretary general for humanitarian affairs and the UN's emergency relief co-ordinator,
was speaking after two days of rioting in Egypt over the soaring cost of basic foodstuffs.

He told a conference in Dubai that rising prices would spark unrest across vulnerable nations.
Average prices have risen 40 per cent across the world in less than a year.

Sir John said: "The security implications should also not be underestimated as food riots are already being reported across the globe.

"Current food price trends are likely to increase sharply both the incidence and depth of food insecurity."

As well as the riots in Egypt, rising food costs have been blamed for violent unrest in Haiti, Ivory Coast, Cameroon,
Mauritania, Mozambique and Senegal. Protests have also occurred in Uzbekistan, Yemen, Bolivia and Indonesia.

China, India, Pakistan, Cambodia and Vietnam have curbed rice exports to ensure there is enough for their own people.

Experts believe food insecurity should be treated as seriously as climate change."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... ots109.xml


J_S

[next to nothing]

Ofcourse it would be a good idea, so that you can shoot your neighbour and take his corn. Much easier than strangling him to death, and much more convenient.

or are you implying that having a gun would help if 10 legally armed people came by? My opinion is that there is much less of a chance of them starting shooting at you if you dont stick a .44 i their face.

[braincell]

I hope in the future more people will use non-lethal weapons. I don't think citizens should carry out executions. Remember if you miss, the bullet could go through the wall and hit someone in the other room or outside, also I would have sympathy for the victims children and wife etc., also, I don't consider simply trespassing such a serious crime that someone should be killed for it, even if it is legal to do.

You did mention "threatening my life". A lot of people consider anyone trespassing in their house to be threat to their life.

One should consider that there may be unforeseen circumstances such as a sleep walker. I would hope anyone who has a gun would have enough sense to ask "What are you doing here?" first and ask them to leave.

There was a case last year when a very drunk famous musician was shot dead just for knocking loudly on his neighbors door in the middle of the night!

If a crazy man was chasing you would you rather he have a knife or a gun?
...
Bro, tase him and run away. That's all you need to do. There is no need for lethal violence.

well, all I can say is that if someone trespasses a certain border threatening my life... then the only thing that would keep me away from pulling the trigger is upcoming trouble with the authorities, not the s*cker's brain spilled over the place.

possibly not the politically correct way of thinking, but that's how it is - and that's me... not even bashing a fly in the room - I'll catch it and put it out of the window.
with ticks and mosquitos it's a bit different, tho

cheers, Tom

[zangsta]

or are you implying that having a gun would help if 10 legally armed people came by?.

??? I don´t get this part... legally armed .. ?? army, police what ??

J_S

[Mr Arkadin]

Gary, when mentioning police do not carry guns i had in the back of my mind the fact that you now see guns at airports etc., but i really think the terrorism thing is a separate issue (a lot of which i'm sure we would agree on) to the average PC Plod in the street issue. i'm quite happy to discuss that in a different thread or via PM, but i don't think it's fair to bring it up in this thread.

i still feel i have the right to walk about without the thought that anyone might be carrying a weapon. And i live in South East London which has a reputation at the moment for stabbings and i'd still rather be unarmed.

[next to nothing]

or are you implying that having a gun would help if 10 legally armed people came by?.

??? I don´t get this part... legally armed .. ?? army, police what ??

J_S

i was referring to having a gun or two laying around, as you mentioned earlier, saying law abiding citizens, legal owners of guns from earlier (they have the same opportunity to buy a gun as you do, they aint born criminals remember) turn criminal to survive (we are talking in context of a food crisis as far as i understand).

And when they take you, hey, they have an extra couple of legally bought guns in their posession, weeeee!

[Shroomz~>]

It would just be a shoot-out though. Everyone wants to be a cowboy, right? Last man standing.

[zangsta]

It would just be a shoot-out though. Everyone wants to be a cowboy, right? Last man standing.

Right, I go for their knee-caps first, if they persist, I´ll aim higher...
Last resort....Head-shot !! !
The Unreal Tournament LIVE, the world tour !

J_S

[astroman]

... I don't consider simply trespassing such a serious crime that someone should be killed for it, ...

Braincell, the phrase was '...trespassing a border that threatens my life...'
in fact your 'mad man story' just rewoke some memories from a couple of years back where a moron tried to drag me off the road with his car during a fast downhill ride with the bike. There was no traffic from the opposite direction and the movement of the vehicle was unmistakably (it touched my left arm)

as I wrote above I normally respect every creature's life - but this a**hole's existence is worth less than a bug's imo.
of course you could say it's just like dogs biting for domination and it's easy to talk about moral and ethics - but what's up when it comes down to yourself or a close relative, a friend or a loved one ?

All I can say is that the wish to extinguish this 'opponent' or threat or whatever was very very real in that situation.
And if it happens to me then it could be anybody else as well...

cheers, Tom

[next to nothing]

"but what's up when it comes down to yourself or a close relative, a friend or a loved one ? "

ah, thats a classic. I remember from my army days, this was one of the classic questions for dividing those claiming to be pasifists from those "able" to do the mandatory 12 months of army.

if you ask me, that question is way too hypothetical. but in many, if not most situations were more than one gun is involved, chances for casualties rise. If a amphetamine-fueled armed burglar enters your house, chances are a lot bigger your whole family gets shot if you start fumbling around with a glock.

i for myself would let him take whatever he wanted. id get it back from my insurance company anyway, and my (hypothetical ) family would be safe.

[dawman]

Brotha' Man Piddi,

Since you served your country you are an honorable man, and your opinions come from a position of experience. Hat's Off 2U.

Too many freedoms can be taken 4 granted, and have detrimental affects.

But to be unarmed in the USA, and trust " Peace Officers " to provide our security is unacceptable.

To not know how to survive during social collapse is also unacceptable.

My son hates watching me dress an Elk, or Whitetail in the field, but he KNOWS how.

When the trucks stop bringing us food, and the Police collapse like they did during Katrina, knowing how to hunt and shoot is necessary.

I have seen too many race riots and know when angry mobs confront weapons, they usually prey upon the unarmed.

That is the sad reality we face in the USA.

I plan on watching my sons grow tall, and playing Scope synths on a generator in the woods, or on a stage. My knowledge and accuracy w/ firearms will assure me that.

Or we might be reading XITE-1 R.I.P. after the Mexican uprising in SoCal.

[Shayne White]

Sorry for jumping so late into this discussion here, but I may as well give my 2c....

The fact is that criminals can always get guns no matter what gun control laws are in place. Therefore, gun control only serves one purpose: to rob responsible, law-abiding citizens of their right to defend themselves against attack.

When I took a pistol orientation class a couple of months ago, I learned that many of the people who take the classes are young women living on their own. Why? People tried to break into their apartments. If someone has a gun and is breaking into your home, would you rather call the police, wait twenty minutes for the intruder to shoot you, and then have the police carry away your dead body? Or would rather shoot first and live?

It's the same way with countries. Why didn't Hitler invade Switzerland? Because every Swiss man, by law, was armed. But let's go a little bit further back: why did the Nazis come to power in the first place? Because the Germans, and especially the Jews, were forced to hand their guns over to the government in 1929.

The fact is that every tyrannical government has come to power only by forcing people to turn over their weapons in the name of "safety." Between the global warming hoax and gun control, liberals are following in their footsteps.

So, I'll take Charlton Heston any day over Michael Moore.

Shayne

[garyb]

you guys are obviously reacting emotionally to my words and not actually considering them.

as to the legalese about "bearing arms", the writers of the constitution were quite clear, both in the preamble to "the bill of rights" and in other writings, that they knew that the government would eventually become corrupt and that the best way to temper that was to have a citizenry that was armed, rebellious and vigilant and too dangerous to cross. it's too bad if this upsets domesticated humans.

it is folly to leave destruction in the hands of "experts" and "authorities". i appreciate how nice many of you have it at the moment, but history says it won't continue, corruption will set in and tyranny will be the result. never the less, if firearms could be COMPLETELY eliminated from criminals as well as from non criminals, i'm ok with that, for sure.

if an amphetamine crazed buglar gets a taste of a .44 or even a .38, there won't be any further violence, for sure. giving him what he wants is no assurance that he will leave. killing him ends the struggle. if he has to fear being killed, he's less likely to go into the house at all. ALL crime goes down where people are allowed to arm and defend themselves.

tasers are certainly NOT non-lethal. they are terrible intruments of torture at best and death, at worst, but i own a couple because they're legal and unregulated, unlike a gun. a small concealed handgun would be better for self defense. it's not a toy.

i understand why you're afraid of guns, it's very sensible to be so. they're dangerous and not for play, but they're also not the government's business. you all who wish to savage me for standing up for my rights are a bunch of children of the state. that's fine. you think that the state loves you, yet as another poster pointed out, they are planning on food shortages and riots. the state is the cause of shortages and riots. food shortages are ALL artificial, just like oil prices(shut down the refineries and you have an excuse to raise prices to the point where transporting food is just too expensive). you need to ask yourself why the UN wants to disarm everyone and create food shortages and blame global warming(or if you are likeing in the 1970s blaming global cooling). maybe you need to watch soylent green again, because that's the softkill model for population control, just like ww1 and ww2 were population control.

the sheep really trust the shepherd. he keeps the wolves at bay and leads them to good pastures. the sheep are too short sighted to see that the shepherd has devious plans for the sheep. he plans for generations of sheep at a time. they cannot comprehend that he takes care of them, not because he has an undying love for them, but because he plans to shear and slaughter them......

i would love to visit the worlds of the nice people who post here, i have no doubt that your lives and homes are wonderful. i pray that life remains nice there for all the generations to come, until the sun burns out and life on earth is over....this is all polemics, of course.

[Shroomz~>]

as to the legalese about "bearing arms", the writers of the constitution were quite clear, both in the preamble to "the bill of rights" and in other writings, that they knew that the government would eventually become corrupt and that the best way to temper that was to have a citizenry that was armed, rebellious and vigilant and too dangerous to cross.

Or the grand plan was to ward invaders off under the cover of something else.

Or they were all scared that their black slaves would revolt...

Or....

[garyb]

free blacks were armed in those days as well. the fear of slave revolt was a reason why they wanted to control and ban weapons in the south. it's also the reason why the authorities are trying to convince the slave to remain disarmed today.

[BingoTheClowno]

Obviously no one cares about the bible commandments preached by no other than Moses, reincarnated as CH. Remember "Thou shall not kill"? This is the same as being baptised on the deck of USS Nimitz.
What a farce!

[Shroomz~>]

Oh dear Bingo, lets not digress to a bible discussion.