Land of the free?

zangsta · Post by **zangsta** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:05 pm

[quote="BingoTheClowno"][quote="garyb"]
For example you claimed that UN wants to enslave us, HAARP is used to "secretly" alter weather on Earth (ignoring the fact that the facility is open to public visits)..quote]

And what will a public visit show that tells the visitors that it´s not used for nefarious purposes....??????????

Google for chemtrails and haarp and se what gives...
I think there´s certainly indicators of foul play here, look up Tom Bearden, and his work on weather control, scalar waves...

Jörgen

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:18 pm

zangsta wrote:
And what will a public visit show that tells the visitors that it´s not used for nefarious purposes....??????????

Jörgen

Well, it is open to the public as well as for the experts to study. I mean, do you trust anybody?

zangsta · Post by **zangsta** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:36 pm

BingoTheClowno wrote:
zangsta wrote:
Well, it is open to the public as well as for the experts to study. I mean, do you trust anybody?

Well what can be studied from the outside, as a visitor, expert or not ?
They send frequencies, signals. Invisible... What HAARP-facility are you refering to. btw.
There´s a few actually, the one in Alaska is the one known to most.
And no. I don´t see any reason to trust these people at all.
The powermongers and moneymen cant be trusted.
I know people I trust, have many trusted friends, and I can sometimes feel
what people I can trust. At a long distance. JimmyV is one of those.

Jörgen

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:45 pm

anyone who will call the bohemian grove a fantasy is either ignorant or purposely blind.

I OWN A MEMBERSHIP ROSTER AS WELL AS THE 100YEAR ANNIVERSARY ANNALS OF THE CLUB.

the UN Agenda 21 documents are available to all, just be sure to read further than the nice sounding opening.

are you denying that a single bank controls ALL the currencies and ALL the earth's resources? because if you are, then agfain, you're either ignorant or a provacatuer. the records are available to all.

HAARP is available and open for all to study?

a DOD operation? that's a lie, and as zangsta said, there is more than one installation. the alaska install is just the most well known.

Cochise · Post by **Cochise** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:47 pm

Sorry garyb, but personally I don't use to lose my humanity trying to do the best I can when I work. Unless I'm excessively stressed (but I could be stressed even working excessively and badly).

For sure such dictatorships mandatorially required and exploited efficiency, but, don't you try yourself to be efficient when you work?

It's different thing when someone MUST be efficient without having an adequate remuneration... or must be efficient working at things he consider bad things..

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:03 pm

see? this is the kind of miscommunication that exists and the kind of confusion that is used. who's against working efficiently, or at least doing a good job?

this whole convoluted conversation that is spanning so many threads is a perfect example of the orwellian principles of newspeak in action. not only have the vocabularies been reduced, but the meanings are subtly different between people, even generation to generation to an end where good means bad and bad means good, and so real action is almost impossible.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:06 pm

garyb wrote: HAARP is available and open for all to study? a DOD operation? that's a lie, and as zangsta said, there is more than one installation. the alaska install is just the most well known.

HAARP wrote: We recognize that there is great interest in the scientific work of the facility and, as a result, we hold an annual open house, generally of two days duration, at which any and all are invited to visit the site and take photographs of the buildings and instruments located there. Several scientists are usually present at these open houses so that visitors can talk directly with those who use the facility for research. Open houses have been held most years since 1995 and have proven to be a popular event.

Who's a liar now?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:08 pm

garyb wrote: the UN Agenda 21 documents are available to all, just be sure to read further than the nice sounding opening.

No one is interested in YOUR interpretation of those documents!

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:08 pm

them.

have you EVER read the DOD documents on the technology?

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:12 pm

BingoTheClowno wrote:
garyb wrote: the UN Agenda 21 documents are available to all, just be sure to read further than the nice sounding opening.
No one is interested in YOUR interpretation of those documents!

hey, F45K you too!
it's just an internet chat! at least i've READ the documents, which is all i ever told you to do. you can make up your own mind yourself, but make sure you read it all, every boring scrap and then THINK before you decide. or don't, but then shut up.

Post by **hubird** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:22 pm

garyb wrote:anyone who will call the bohemian grove a fantasy is either ignorant or purposely blind.

no...not that lame rotary club story again

men fighting for the right to pee in the bushes... (rant mode off).
sorry Gary, I have a lot od respect for your independent thinking and gathering and combining alternative information.
but I don't share the way you translate it to a political analysis.
If everything is always under controll by definition why would you (one) care anymore?
Things get interesting where political counterforces win a battle, or are able to question certain developments.
Is Chavez a mask of the Elite?
Why couldn't the Elite stop Cuba?
Why had South Africa to stop apartheid?
Why was the workers class in industrial nations able to work itself up from capitalistic slavery?
Why got fascisme in Europe defeated?
Why don't we even want to forbid Wilders' anti coran film?
You're minimising history to a state of fact, as I said befor, who wins from a deterministic and ahistorical approach of reality?
I'm repeating myself, but who isn't

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:04 pm

hubird wrote:
garyb wrote:anyone who will call the bohemian grove a fantasy is either ignorant or purposely blind.
no...not that lame rotary club story again
men fighting for the right to pee in the bushes... (rant mode off).
sorry Gary, I have a lot od respect for your independent thinking and gathering and combining alternative information.
but I don't share the way you translate it to a political analysis.
If everything is always under controll by definition why would you (one) care anymore?
Things get interesting where political counterforces win a battle, or are able to question certain developments.
Is Chavez a mask of the Elite?
Why couldn't the Elite stop Cuba?
Why had South Africa to stop apartheid?
Why was the workers class in industrial nations able to work itself up from capitalistic slavery?
Why got fascisme in Europe defeated?
Why don't we even want to forbid Wilders' anti coran film?
You're minimising history to a state of fact, as I said befor, who wins from a deterministic and ahistorical approach of reality?
I'm repeating myself, but who isn't

ok, hubird, i'll bite.

these questions are dumb, sorry.
the grove is where the manhattan project and federal reserve system were planned, which is more than just peeing in the bushes. the grove membership were instrumental in founding and funding the UN and one member, mr. rockefellor, donated the land for the UN building(again more than just peeing in the bushes).

the reason to care is because they don't have the right to control all other humans, at all.

there are different factions in the "Elite" fighting for power. hugo Chavez is part of one faction.

why would they like to stop Cuba? i have a photo of Jimmy Carter and Castro standing next to each other making gang hand signs(order of odd fellows signs).

did south africa stop apartheid(a dutch invention)? or did it just change form? gullible, gullible, gullible. are the Africans in control of africa?

just because you have nice stuff, you're not under capitalistic slavery? serfs in England in the middle ages paid 60% of their income and produce to THE LORD. how much in taxes do you pay?

if fascism in europe is defeated, how come the fascist laws are still intact?(a german court recently ruled that a Nazi law never taken off the books that required children to be sent to the state-run schools and outlawing home schooling is lawful and valid) how come the EU constitution is in force even though never ratified? why do soldiers in black uniforms shoot rubber bullets at huge crowds protesting globalist policies? why is the nato symbol a swastika? how are fascists still elected to office in england, france, italy, germany and poland?

political correctedness with one film? try saying the holocaust didn't happen or any other thought crime. try saying that you want to kill the prime mininster or overthrow the government(a human right), not commit the action, just SAY it and see what happens....

YOU are speaking ahistorically. historically, the commoners have been nothing but cannon fodder and workers for the enjoyment of their nearly angelic(and disgustingly corrrupt, sibling killing) "betters".

Post by **hubird** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:30 pm

You're hopeless

You're so obsessed by the idea of total control by the Elite(s) that you count in every arguement into your world of truth.
the grove is a powerless rotary club, as demonstrated by that undercover journalist.
Should I really argue against the arguement of that forgotten German law as a proof of today fascisme in Germany??
A judge has to face the law, politions have to make or change them, and that should be the way it is.
Chavez tries to give back to his people some of the richness of his country, and if you say he's gathering mony for the elite which of course he's a member of you're loosing contact with reality.
Fascists still being elected doesn't make fascisme, don't you think?
One wrong word and they get sue'd.
Tax moves between 33 and 57% here, depending on income level.
The revenues go to roads, education, city planning and repair programs, and army also yes, that's what people want., etc. etc.
Compare that with the mediaval situation.
Bullets for the antiglobalists, yes, but without those protesters no bullets.
Or are those protesters hired by the elite?
It are the dynamics of history that interest me, denying any counterforces is what I call ahistorical, yes.
Com'on...

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:18 pm

oh really? laws are laws no matter what?

when it was the law in the united states that non-europeans weren't human did that make it so? we have to blindly follow those laws just because they are written? during the nurenberg trials, it was said that following orders wasn't a good enough excuse for doing the wrong thing, that morality wasn't just a subjective point of veiw...

i understand that you like the present order, that's good for you. i'm just not imrpressed. i don't care if they continue with their twisted little party, i just WILL NOT be blamed by them for the problems of the world. i KNOW who the trouble-makers are.

my world isn't as black and white as YOU want to make it. these guys are often not ALL bad, and some even defect to some degree or another, never the less, they don't stay in power without some sort of cooperation from the rest(see noriega, sadaam and milosovic). one false move and...

the problem is much higher up than presidents and ceos. as i said, ONE family runs ALL the banking and controls ALL the resources. there are other similarly placed families, but monopoly is no surprise. monopoly is the point of business(well certain business). haven't you read the writings of Cecil Rhodes(who was working for the house of orange in south africa)?

37-50% taxes, yes. PLUS taxes on every purchase and transaction! YOU sir, are nothing but a serf in a gilded cage. because you have nice things you think you are free. you think that because the cell is pleasant that you're not in prison. did you think a movie like the matrix was futuristic science fiction? remeber the guy who couldn't stand it and made a deal to go back into the matrix? since they treat you better these days, you don't want to upset them by declaring independance?

funny how Nazi euthanasia laws that were rejected on the basis of morality and decency during the 30s and 40s are now championed in the north lands for the same reason, but that's just my personal problem....

Post by **hubird** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:34 pm

garyb wrote:funny how Nazi euthanasia laws that were rejected on the basis of morality and decency during the 30s and 40s are now championed in the north lands for the same reason, but that's just my personal problem....

you don't know what you're talking about.
Our euthanesia law (and abortion law) is an example of a perfect balance between the freedom of the individual to define it's own life and the need to protect misabuse of the given possibility.
Hence the three-double controll mechanisms and procedures before a doctor can give professional help for those who are entitled to ask for it.
Even the very conservative Christions who managed to be a part of the three party gouvernment coalition doesn't want to start the discussion all over again.
They accept the will of the majority on this, not in the least as they know the procedurers are fine-mazed and well thought trough.
Political processes in a multi party system may be slow and siroplike, but in the end our society isn't polarisized as much as in your country, and doesn't have such a class struggle as the US have.
I wish every world sitizen the system I live in, to start with, yes

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:34 pm

it's ok by me, you have the right to do as you see fit. the comparison is still appropriate. since you like history, historically, incrementalism is used when the public revulses at an idea. soon the idea is commonplace and not shocking at all. an example would be Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.audiences at the time could think of nothing more disgusting than sewing peices of dead people into anything, let alone another body. now, the wealthy can go to China for a nearly immeadiate transplant from a healthy, organically fed peasant who was labled a dissident, euthanized and harvested. as David Rockefellor said himself(the UN also made a decree to the same tune), China is the model government for the future.

actually, i don't think the government has ANY thing to say about things like euthanasia. if a very sick man dies and there is no complaint, why would the government even be involved?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:10 pm

garyb wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote:
garyb wrote: the UN Agenda 21 documents are available to all, just be sure to read further than the nice sounding opening.
No one is interested in YOUR interpretation of those documents!
hey, F45K you too!
it's just an internet chat! at least i've READ the documents, which is all i ever told you to do. you can make up your own mind yourself, but make sure you read it all, every boring scrap and then THINK before you decide. or don't, but then shut up.

You think bullying will improve your credibility?

Post by **hubird** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:15 pm

well, to intervene for a moment, why wouldn't anybody be interested is someone elses vision or interpretations?
isn't he allowed to speak free?
I love the Dbate, specially with Gary, as he never gives up

garyb wrote:actually, i don't think the government has ANY thing to say about things like euthanasia. if a very sick man dies and there is no complaint, why would the government even be involved?

you know why: misabuse is around the corner.
also the society has a responsibility to the individual: someone can be depressive because of solitude, and that should principally be a concern of the society as is.

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:21 pm

BingoTheClowno wrote:
garyb wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote: No one is interested in YOUR interpretation of those documents!
hey, F45K you too!
it's just an internet chat! at least i've READ the documents, which is all i ever told you to do. you can make up your own mind yourself, but make sure you read it all, every boring scrap and then THINK before you decide. or don't, but then shut up.
You think bullying will improve your credibility?

bullying?

i know what you're posting here for.

it's just an internet bulletin board, and i just check in to see if i can help anyone, and then we entertain eachother in the off topic section. say hello to the boys in control.

number 6 out.

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:22 pm

hubird wrote:well, to intervene for a moment, why wouldn't anybody be interested is someone elses vision or interpretations?
isn't he allowed to speak free?
I love the Dbate, specially with Gary, as he never gives up

cheers!