Recording MIDI w/ Cubase 4.1

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:54 pm

It is my first attempt at using Cubase to record a drum track.

Since I don't trust these kind of apps yet, I thought I would do a simple 4/4 @ 120 just using the bass and snare, playing a kick then snare on each quarter note so I could check out the timing of the Q function, and mess w/ triplets, etc.

When I just listen to the playback prior to the quantize the audio sounds totally different from what I heard when I recorded it. It's all over the place.

I thought maybe the ppq was more than the 384 I have used for years w/ hardware sequencers. But when I quantize it, it sucks even worse.

There obviously is some MIDI problem going on here cause I know I can do a 4/4 120 pattern. But even just listening back to the triggered drums I hear some serious flaws.

I thought my hardware MIDI Patch Bay was the culprit, so I went directly to the Scope MIDI Input, and the same thing.

I have recorded some serious drum tracks like Billy Cobham and Mahavishnu, so I am quite accurate doing this on a keyboard, as I have done this for 20 + years.

I know I am behind in the times a little, but does everyone use audio drum tracks, or Beat / Splice stuff. I am baffled as I know I can do good MIDI drum tracks, and besides, the 4/4 test is childs play, yet Cubase can't seem to place the beats correctly.

Any Ideas?

Thanks

JV

Post by **hubird** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:07 pm

you have to specify the quantize value first.
choose from the list in the quantize menu, swingtime in different degrees of tightness, from lazy reggea to tight Aces shuffle.
If you played a note outside the half of a quantize count, it will move to the wrong direction, you will have to move those notes manually.

But if something's wrong, then something is wrong...no idea

You can also choose 'iterative' quantize, your deviations will be contained, but the marges are relatively smaller!

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:31 pm

Thanks Brotha' Man Hubird.

I will just keep struggling with this until I figure it out.

I just have to get used to recording music, and not being able to have it played back. This is why I try these apps, then drop 'em like hot potatoes.

Since hearing VDAT I am invigorated to record and use a sequencer app.

But if I experience more music killing problems like this, I will remain w/ hardware sequencers, and tape.

VDAT is so simple and beautiful, I just wish someone would make a sequencer app that could record so eloquently.

My last resort is to record a side stick using Cubase's stereo out into VDAT and just record several takes of drums. I have the greatest sounding drum library w/ snare rolls,brush swirls, etc.

I shall continue.

Thanks.

JV

Post by **Neil B** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:49 am

Not sure about 4.1 Jimmy as I use 32/5.1 but perhaps I can offer a test.

Continuing from what Hubird wrote:

Select your quantise style from the menu options and, as you have worries about a midi problem, select the tightest (inhuman) option.

www.tonaleffects.co.uk/cub1.JPG

Next select your quantise values - 2 pics for you - one from the arrange screen

www.tonaleffects.co.uk/cub2.JPG

and one from inside the part editor

www.tonaleffects.co.uk/cub3.JPG

Finally on the transport bar (if 4.1 is the same) is a little button with AQ on it
This is Auto-Quantise so it'll force your notes into the right beat.

www.tonaleffects.co.uk/cub4.JPG

Hope that helps

P.S - the snap value will determine the length of the note - keep that in mind if you have reverb tails on your kik for instance.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:10 am

Brotha' Man Neil B. ...............

Thank You Very Much,

You just kept me from me quiting this application. 4.1 is a little different than yours but I see the tuplet and dots so I know where I am.

I wasn't aware of the first jpegs so I will seek a little to find some more.

I have an advanced quantise option but it wouldn;t highlight.

I cannot believe the hours I have spent on this w/o the smallest signs of improvement. It sure has very many sweet shortcuts and could be a really fluid recording tool if I could just get through the *%#()##+#.

And Yes,......I would like some cheese with that WHINE<

Thanks Neil B.

Post by **garyb** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:14 am

in cubase go to devices/device setup/direct music/windows midi, check "use system timestamp"....

that should fix it.

the actual menu may be a little different, but this should be pretty close.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:41 am

I am on it.

I did find a slight work around.

Instead of 3/4 @ 206, I tried 6/8 @ 100 BPM.

It is painfully slow, but once I lay down the drums all of the synths and samples will not need quantising, that would ruin the feel totally.

Thanks Guys.

You are keeping me in there.

I found it, a little black box, it wasn't checked, so I checked it.

I do see where this app would be very capable in the right hands,

Post by **Neil B** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:01 am

You have the right hands & you only have to ask

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:51 am

Thanks Neil , Hubird, and GaryB.

This might turn into a very long post, but the rewards will be tremendous.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:19 am

MIDI quantising trick worked GaryB, thanks.

I have been recording audio and decided to try the quantizing features, and since I recorded it very close to the ppq amounts it came out sounding clean. I was expecting to hear some artifacts from the movement of the audio file, but it sounded super tight.

I especially like the way that overdubs in MIDI ans audio have layers where you can click on the latest dubm even if it overlaps, and erase it. Very nice.

The sound quality is O.K. but VDAT's quality is definately a step above.

Enough so where I will be purchasing an app that recoeds 32bit Integer instead of float.

I will check out S.A.W. since I can drive over to their customer support office,

. But what other apps. have 32bit integer that would play well w/ Scope? Or better yet is there an audio / video app. that is available?

Thanks So Much Guys,

JAV S4L

H-Rave · Post by **H-Rave** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:41 pm

If I have a doubt I usually go into the asio multimedia setup and do a syncronisation check, sometimes it gets wierd because of that as well.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:31 pm

Thank You Brotha' Man H-Rave,

I have had my first all Cubase 4.0 day w/ complete sucsess.

Who needs customer support when I have you guys.

I have a Cubase 4.1 video upgrade from Digital Doctors, the manuals, and my Brotha's from the Z, I am in great hands.

I think I will use the formula I used today where I lay down the Kick and Snare quantized, then do the high-hats and rides unquantized, but tight, then add the turn arounds.

Larry Seyer's Acoustic Drum Library is fantastic. It has notes with sampled buzz and press roll starts, and the Montineri snare w/ embedded Gigapulse convoluted reverbs is incredibly realistic.

The drum track is killer. Sure it was a pain, but once C4 is set up and properly routed it is a very fast compositional tool.

This drum track was recorded @ 206 6/4 timing where many polyhythms are happening. It came out really well.

I will actually be able to use these well recorded but useless live VSTi instruments I purchased.

They work great for recording but in a live gig many of the features are inaccessible. Gigastudio 4 should fix that next week.

Some new Blue Sky Monitors and I'll be set.

Hopefully my video classes can be applied w/ my audio knowledge and I can start handling some serious production work by winter time.

Thanks 4 All Of The Tips, I might just keep C4 after today.

Post by **garyb** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:56 pm

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:57 am

Well I m ust admit that Cubase 4 is way ahead of my QX-1 / QY700 sequencers when it comes to quantinization tricks.

The amount of options is staggering and the ability to save a custom tuplet is just damn conveinent.

I can make some really advanced rhythic tracks with the best sounding kits from Larry Seyer, VSL, and Sonivox.

African / Brazilian percussions thrown around are awesome too.

Hell even the Cowbell Orchestra sounds fantastic w/ a splash of the PCM91.

I am catalogueing, and making loop libraries at an alarming rate, thanks to GUI that Yamaha / Steinberg has given us.

This sequencer was made for production.

Who cares if it sucks live and suffers from stability, it will stay in my house and be used to write songs quickly, and efficiently.

Post by **hubird** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:14 am

congrats

you said: When I just listen to the playback prior to the quantize the audio sounds totally different from what I heard when I recorded it. It's all over the place.
what was wrong then, looking back now?

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:59 pm

The latency was @ 26msec., and was not using Windows MIDI, but Direct X or something.

It helped to change the time signature to 6/4 @ 188, instead of 3/4 @ 206 also.

A real drummer would have a tough time w/ this piece, as he would be counting / sub-dividing while performing.

But hey, that's how we do it on the big jobs, right?

BTW Hubird your drum tracks sound pretty good for a white guy.

Post by **hubird** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:08 pm

but who said I'm not black?

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:45 pm

Yo' Momma Told Me So.