Thanks Jez!
It seems you're getting a liitle less bw than I am - could be due to the adapter card (I remember using a PCI to PCMCIA adapter with the magma wasn't as good as a dedicated Magma PCI) or to the DEC chip... But I'm glad it's working, even if it is with Vista. I'll try to get a friend of mine to bring his Vista laptop over, see if I can install the cards, and take some more measurements without any adapters...
I am quite happy with the way Scope is working here, even though it's a very long way from the 17 MVs I can get on the desktop, it's quite usable and can take 4, 5, 6 heavy synths, a lot of effects, including delays, and a couple of reverbs... The fans work well, and the cards stay pretty cool inside. Stable, even when using its own hw MIDI I/O, this is one hell of a synth module.
Now let's see if I can load one of my mix projects... I don't really like the idea of having to move my cards from computer to chassis very often...
T
serious freezing problem with magma pci extension!
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helldriver
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
Mmm... Vista recognised the Magma without drivers, it then notified me that two multimedia devices required installation. I used the Scope XP drivers and it worked fine. The install of Scope only worked when I right-clicked and selected Run as Administrator. You can also select the option to open in XP compatibility mode by right-clicking on the Scope icon after the install and going through the properties dialogue. That worked for me. One or two unusual bits of behaviour - it doesn't remember ULLI settings and the STS series will not work at all. And I have to reinstall the OXEs while setting the whole Scope directory to disable default read only setting...
But now it works and crashes only very rarely. I too cannot wait for SPF 5, I am optimistic!
PS - Any luck with the Pericom chips out there?
Jez
But now it works and crashes only very rarely. I too cannot wait for SPF 5, I am optimistic!
PS - Any luck with the Pericom chips out there?
Jez
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helldriver
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
I still haven´t found a solution to my my freezing problem.
the laptop still freezes, when using creamware and uad.
the interesting is, when using the uad alone it works.
so i went back with the magma to my old p4 3ghz.
with the p4 it works using a uad and scope together.
is also made the masterverb test on both systems, sony laptop and p4.
my results so far:
p4 3ghz, asus p4pe I845, magma dec 2slot pci expansion with pci connector: 8 masterverbs without pci overflow. -> works solid without any problems even if heavy loaded with plugins
sony fe31m, magma dec 2slot pci expansion with pcmcia connector:
4 masterverbs -> causes freezing when using scope and uad. it even crashes when i just use scope with workload 40%. if the workload is only 20% it is stable.
so it seems that low pci performance is the cause for any freezes (perhaps that´s a hint for other scope user which are plagued with freezings! change the mainboards to better ones with better pci performance)
the solution should be to use the magma with an expresscard for the sony laptop, since expresscard standard is 4-5 times faster than pcmcia.
the laptop still freezes, when using creamware and uad.
the interesting is, when using the uad alone it works.
so i went back with the magma to my old p4 3ghz.
with the p4 it works using a uad and scope together.
is also made the masterverb test on both systems, sony laptop and p4.
my results so far:
p4 3ghz, asus p4pe I845, magma dec 2slot pci expansion with pci connector: 8 masterverbs without pci overflow. -> works solid without any problems even if heavy loaded with plugins
sony fe31m, magma dec 2slot pci expansion with pcmcia connector:
4 masterverbs -> causes freezing when using scope and uad. it even crashes when i just use scope with workload 40%. if the workload is only 20% it is stable.
so it seems that low pci performance is the cause for any freezes (perhaps that´s a hint for other scope user which are plagued with freezings! change the mainboards to better ones with better pci performance)
the solution should be to use the magma with an expresscard for the sony laptop, since expresscard standard is 4-5 times faster than pcmcia.
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helldriver
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
Re: serious freezing problem with magma pci extension!
Hi, Tau I finally got me an duel pcmcia -> expresscard adater. but it´s not working.Tau wrote:helldriver wrote:
I also tried the Duel Adapter (EC to PCMCIA) and it works well, but you're limited to PCMCIA bandwidth, so there's no real gain here apart from being able to use a faster (newer) lappie... I use it with my PCMCIA RME and it works just as if there wasn't an adapter. very well, indeed. On the other hand, I simply could not install it on a newer HP laptop, as the firmware on the EC prevented it from being initialized in 32-bit cardbus mode - and that is something everyone shoud be aware before buying a new laptop to use with Magma - many won't work. Hence, the Mac. Period.
T
did you follow an special installation routine on that?
e.g. deinstalling all magma drivers, then install duel drivers, after that install magma drivers, then connect box without pci cards, and finally if recognised install the pci cards.
if i run the cardbus card via the duel adapter (pcmcia -> Expresscard), what drivers will i need for the magma. the old ones for the standart cardbus controller, or the newer expresscard drivers??
any hint is welcome
thx
Hello Helldriver!
The dual adapter needs drivers for xp, and those should be the first to install. If you already have a scope installation, it might be best to erase it and the drivers, and start anew. You can backup the devices, presets and app/dsp folders, especially if you have a lot of 3rd party plugins installed.
Then plug the Magma without the PCIs and install its drivers. The Duel shortcut should appear on the taskbar, and give you info on whart's attached ( in this case- nothing). I think I used the regular Cardbus drivers to install the magma chassis, and that makes sense, since you will be using the PCMCIA interface, and the EC-PCMCIA work is done by the Duel itself. (in OSX, no drivers are needed for the Duel or the Magma)
After that is done, you should see the "PCI-to-PCI bridge" driver in the hardware monitor of the control panel. Plug in the scope cards and install its drivers when prompted. Everything should work smoothly from then on.
i have made several installations, and on most of them, I'd just install the magma chassis with the cards already in place, to avoid too much wear on the contacts, and it worked OK. But installing it without the cards can make it easy to pinpoint and troubleshoot any problems that can occur.
Wish you the best of luck! Let me know if it works!
Cheers,
T
The dual adapter needs drivers for xp, and those should be the first to install. If you already have a scope installation, it might be best to erase it and the drivers, and start anew. You can backup the devices, presets and app/dsp folders, especially if you have a lot of 3rd party plugins installed.
Then plug the Magma without the PCIs and install its drivers. The Duel shortcut should appear on the taskbar, and give you info on whart's attached ( in this case- nothing). I think I used the regular Cardbus drivers to install the magma chassis, and that makes sense, since you will be using the PCMCIA interface, and the EC-PCMCIA work is done by the Duel itself. (in OSX, no drivers are needed for the Duel or the Magma)
After that is done, you should see the "PCI-to-PCI bridge" driver in the hardware monitor of the control panel. Plug in the scope cards and install its drivers when prompted. Everything should work smoothly from then on.
i have made several installations, and on most of them, I'd just install the magma chassis with the cards already in place, to avoid too much wear on the contacts, and it worked OK. But installing it without the cards can make it easy to pinpoint and troubleshoot any problems that can occur.
Wish you the best of luck! Let me know if it works!
Cheers,
T
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helldriver
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
thanks tau, i´ll give it another try.
but yet, what drivers for the magma should i use? the one for ec card or the standart cardbus controllers.
since i´m using the standart cardbus controller connected to the duel pcmcia -> expresscard adapter it is not clear to me.
on the other hand is it useful to uninstall the magma drivers as well before connecting the magma to duel adapter?
btw could you give me the magma item no. of the silver cable that you are using with with your magma expresscard (the one with the silver connectors for more data throughput) for the case that i´m getting me the same configuration?
and tau as you are using the pericom + eccard and silver cable, could you tell me how many masterverbs you can run with that combination? and how many masterverbs are possible with the old cable?
thx so much for your advices and help
helldriver
but yet, what drivers for the magma should i use? the one for ec card or the standart cardbus controllers.
since i´m using the standart cardbus controller connected to the duel pcmcia -> expresscard adapter it is not clear to me.
on the other hand is it useful to uninstall the magma drivers as well before connecting the magma to duel adapter?
btw could you give me the magma item no. of the silver cable that you are using with with your magma expresscard (the one with the silver connectors for more data throughput) for the case that i´m getting me the same configuration?
and tau as you are using the pericom + eccard and silver cable, could you tell me how many masterverbs you can run with that combination? and how many masterverbs are possible with the old cable?
thx so much for your advices and help
helldriver
with the PCMCIA / duel adapter, the proper drivers for the Magma are the Cardbus ones (PCMCIA), and it is advisable to uninstall all previous magma drivers and even the scope drivers.
I have posted those MV numbers in another thread, I'm going to look for them and I'll post a link here in a minute.
T
I have posted those MV numbers in another thread, I'm going to look for them and I'll post a link here in a minute.
T
In fact, the results are on this very thread: at most, with 2x15dsp cards, pericom chip, silver cable and EC interface, I could load 9 MVs (usable), sometimes 10 MVs (but very unstable), while the DEC plus PCMCIA would load between 4 and 5 MVs.
The part number for the cable is CBL1.5HF – 1.5-meter Hi-Fi cable.
I remember that using it with the pericom didn't seem to make much of a difference, although it is recommended by Magma (could be some longer-term issues I didn't run into). But please note that the DEC chassis worked really bad with the EC interface, and the bandwidth it provides is the same with the Duel or directly with PCMCIA.
If you re-read this thread, you'll also notice Kylie had some trouble getting his laptop to recognize the cards using the PCMCIA, and that is something I also came across, but with the PCI interface - only after changing slots would I get xp to recognize the scopes and ask for the drivers, so it may be an IRQ issue. If nothing else works, try to disable some devices on the control panel, and see if freeing up some interrupts solves the problem.
I have built a p4 DAW to house the scopes in the studio - 17 MVs is a no-discussion figure! Since I haven't been doing much live, I haven't been using the Magmas either. I have made a special STDM cable that allows me to have one card on the computer and a couple more on the chassis - giving 14 MVs when used together and 8-9 when mobile. But I will be selling the pericom as soon as the X-Cite comes out - seems to be the best way to go mobile.
Best of luck,
T
The part number for the cable is CBL1.5HF – 1.5-meter Hi-Fi cable.
I remember that using it with the pericom didn't seem to make much of a difference, although it is recommended by Magma (could be some longer-term issues I didn't run into). But please note that the DEC chassis worked really bad with the EC interface, and the bandwidth it provides is the same with the Duel or directly with PCMCIA.
If you re-read this thread, you'll also notice Kylie had some trouble getting his laptop to recognize the cards using the PCMCIA, and that is something I also came across, but with the PCI interface - only after changing slots would I get xp to recognize the scopes and ask for the drivers, so it may be an IRQ issue. If nothing else works, try to disable some devices on the control panel, and see if freeing up some interrupts solves the problem.
I have built a p4 DAW to house the scopes in the studio - 17 MVs is a no-discussion figure! Since I haven't been doing much live, I haven't been using the Magmas either. I have made a special STDM cable that allows me to have one card on the computer and a couple more on the chassis - giving 14 MVs when used together and 8-9 when mobile. But I will be selling the pericom as soon as the X-Cite comes out - seems to be the best way to go mobile.
Best of luck,
T
well, since I had that trouble with all notebooks I tried (3 to be precise), even with different OS (Win2000 and XP), I've given up on that. I'd just kinda like to know whether my pcmcia card is fine at all, since I would probably sell it and use pci only (because it worked out of the box, so the chassis itself is fine)...Tau wrote:If you re-read this thread, you'll also notice Kylie had some trouble getting his laptop to recognize the cards using the PCMCIA, and that is something I also came across, but with the PCI interface - only after changing slots would I get xp to recognize the scopes and ask for the drivers, so it may be an IRQ issue. If nothing else works, try to disable some devices on the control panel, and see if freeing up some interrupts solves the problem.
-greetings, markus-
--
I'm sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
I'm sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
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helldriver
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
@ Kylie: have you ever tried with ec34 card?
@ Tau: I have question for you, as you have the silver cable could you read what the label on the cable says. Because I own already a silver one, but I´m not quite sure if it is the right one. I asked magma support but they didn´t help me out.
the label with silver metall connectors says: pn:60-00026-01 E4204
Tau, what is written on your silver one? Thx
@ Tau: I have question for you, as you have the silver cable could you read what the label on the cable says. Because I own already a silver one, but I´m not quite sure if it is the right one. I asked magma support but they didn´t help me out.
the label with silver metall connectors says: pn:60-00026-01 E4204
Tau, what is written on your silver one? Thx
no, for several reasons.helldriver wrote:@ Kylie: have you ever tried with ec34 card?
1) my backplane is all DEC, from what I can tell. the PCIHIFx1 (and its mobile variant with expresscard) is said to work with pericom only.
2) I don't have a notebook featuring EC.
3) I don't have the right cable. mine is all black.
yesterday I ran some MV tests again, and had much worse results with MV than with MVP. I ran into the pci limit with the second MV I loaded, and the dsp reallocation dialog popped up after another 2.
there was hardly a third of my 24 dsp capacity in use at that time.
I was able to load 12 MVP without any error, number 13 brought up the dsp limit (while the dsp usage meter was below 50%).
well, I use it with a P3-866 right now, and I have some more cards like a UAD, a sata controller and a FW/USB2 controller in the chassis. this might not be an ideal setup...
but from what I've read I had to change more than just the host card to get my chassis running with PCIe, so I will probably abandon the whole magma thing, sell it, and start saving for XITE, seriously...
-greetings, markus-
--
I'm sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
I'm sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
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helldriver
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
Hey guys very kind for your immediate response!
Tau what do you think? it´s pretty much the same number.
looks like i have the right one.
my cable looks exactly like the CBL1HF
http://www.magma.com/support/parts/#cables
Tau what do you think? it´s pretty much the same number.
looks like i have the right one.
my cable looks exactly like the CBL1HF
http://www.magma.com/support/parts/#cables
Well, ONE different number could mean a totally different part... I have no idea, sorry.
But anyway, I forgot exactly what you are trying to accomplish.
If you are planning to use a DEC chassis with an EC card, it's the one configuration that didn't work at all here (on a Mac), so I really don't know how important the cable is for that. But I would avoid that configuration.
Still, if I was feeling adventurous and had the money to spare, here's what I'd do:
1- order the EC34 interface.
2- Try it out, with your chassis and cable. Check performance.
If it's better, or just as good as with the PCMCIA, in terms of performance and stability, keep it - it'll add compatibility to modern laptops. On the other hand, If it's not, you can:
3a - order a new cable and see if it makes a difference;
3b - forget about the DEC and get a Pericom instead;
3c - send it back, get a refund, and leave things as they are until you can do 3b or get an XCITE.
I found it very hard to find factual information about Magma, everything seems so hit and miss, so dependant of so many variables... and the time it takes to search for things that don't exist is not very well spent either. It's better to try it out.
The recommended setup would be a Pericom with a PCI-E interface. In a couple of weeks , when the X-Cite comes, and if all goes well, I should be selling my working system (one of the DECs is already gone), so that's an option for you to consider, if you like.
I had very friendly responses from UKs Amplicon and Germany's Hacker, and the prices were consistent with USA shop after taxes, varying only on expected delivery time. If you happen to be in any of the countries that has a direct Magma distributor, returning the units and getting a refund should be simple and cheap. Two-weeks delivery time seems to be standard, though flexible. On the other hand, if you have to import and pay customs, those cannot be refunded, and could be just an extra expense to consider...
All the best,
T
But anyway, I forgot exactly what you are trying to accomplish.
If you are planning to use a DEC chassis with an EC card, it's the one configuration that didn't work at all here (on a Mac), so I really don't know how important the cable is for that. But I would avoid that configuration.
Still, if I was feeling adventurous and had the money to spare, here's what I'd do:
1- order the EC34 interface.
2- Try it out, with your chassis and cable. Check performance.
If it's better, or just as good as with the PCMCIA, in terms of performance and stability, keep it - it'll add compatibility to modern laptops. On the other hand, If it's not, you can:
3a - order a new cable and see if it makes a difference;
3b - forget about the DEC and get a Pericom instead;
3c - send it back, get a refund, and leave things as they are until you can do 3b or get an XCITE.
I found it very hard to find factual information about Magma, everything seems so hit and miss, so dependant of so many variables... and the time it takes to search for things that don't exist is not very well spent either. It's better to try it out.
The recommended setup would be a Pericom with a PCI-E interface. In a couple of weeks , when the X-Cite comes, and if all goes well, I should be selling my working system (one of the DECs is already gone), so that's an option for you to consider, if you like.
I had very friendly responses from UKs Amplicon and Germany's Hacker, and the prices were consistent with USA shop after taxes, varying only on expected delivery time. If you happen to be in any of the countries that has a direct Magma distributor, returning the units and getting a refund should be simple and cheap. Two-weeks delivery time seems to be standard, though flexible. On the other hand, if you have to import and pay customs, those cannot be refunded, and could be just an extra expense to consider...
All the best,
T
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helldriver
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
Re: serious freezing problem with magma pci extension!
Hi, I got me the EC34 Magma for pericom 4PCI Magma Extension Box. But unfortunately it wasn´t solving the freezing problem at all.
There´s just another couple of things i can do, -> make a clear reinstall with winxp/vista, buy me a new different laptop, wait for the new scope5 software (because it seems to be that it is definately a scope related problem, perhaps scope4.5 has problems with centrino2 duocore).
tau, you have a functioning setup with a creamware scope in magma extension?
if so could you tell me your exact setup? that would be very nice. and what kind of asio drivers are you using (could you send me copy of your default project)?
thx very much
There´s just another couple of things i can do, -> make a clear reinstall with winxp/vista, buy me a new different laptop, wait for the new scope5 software (because it seems to be that it is definately a scope related problem, perhaps scope4.5 has problems with centrino2 duocore).
tau, you have a functioning setup with a creamware scope in magma extension?
if so could you tell me your exact setup? that would be very nice. and what kind of asio drivers are you using (could you send me copy of your default project)?
thx very much
Re: serious freezing problem with magma pci extension!
Hi,
Sorry to hear about that. Ever since the announced release of the XCITE, I have kept my cards safely inside the desktop until the time for trading in comes...
But it was working well with the EC45 and Pericom 2-slot (and 3 cards
), on a MacBook pro, with XP, and using the normal ASIO2-24 modules in SFP.
The Mac is also a dual-core machine. I tried installing it with Vista, on a friend's ACER lappie, but it wouldn't even recognize the cards.
You could try other laptops and see if it's some issue with that particular one - but I wouldn't buy one without trying it out first. You can also try placing the cards on different slots in the Magma. The top one is usually the first one, start there with 1 card, and see if there's any position where it doesn't freeze. And there's also the new Scope driver they released to fix the Cubase4 issue. Maybe it helps, I haven't tried it yet, but it's on SC's webpage.
One other measure to take would be to disable some of the onboard hardware of the laptop that might be in conflict with the Express Card. If nothing helps, a clean XP installation may work - but it can be a lot of trouble too...
As for Scope 5, we're all hoping it'll work better, but until it's out, who knows? I'm definitely in for an XCITE...
Just one thing, is that the same Magma chassis that would freeze using the PCMCIA?
Good luck, sorry I couldn't be of more help...
T
Sorry to hear about that. Ever since the announced release of the XCITE, I have kept my cards safely inside the desktop until the time for trading in comes...
But it was working well with the EC45 and Pericom 2-slot (and 3 cards
), on a MacBook pro, with XP, and using the normal ASIO2-24 modules in SFP.The Mac is also a dual-core machine. I tried installing it with Vista, on a friend's ACER lappie, but it wouldn't even recognize the cards.
You could try other laptops and see if it's some issue with that particular one - but I wouldn't buy one without trying it out first. You can also try placing the cards on different slots in the Magma. The top one is usually the first one, start there with 1 card, and see if there's any position where it doesn't freeze. And there's also the new Scope driver they released to fix the Cubase4 issue. Maybe it helps, I haven't tried it yet, but it's on SC's webpage.
One other measure to take would be to disable some of the onboard hardware of the laptop that might be in conflict with the Express Card. If nothing helps, a clean XP installation may work - but it can be a lot of trouble too...
As for Scope 5, we're all hoping it'll work better, but until it's out, who knows? I'm definitely in for an XCITE...
Just one thing, is that the same Magma chassis that would freeze using the PCMCIA?
Good luck, sorry I couldn't be of more help...
T
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helldriver
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
Re: serious freezing problem with magma pci extension!
yeah it´s the same, it freezes with the dec and pericom chipset and with pcmcia and ec34 card.
very strange.
but tau thx for the additional hints, i´m gonna try till hell freezes over
very strange.
but tau thx for the additional hints, i´m gonna try till hell freezes over
Re: serious freezing problem with magma pci extension!
Helldriver, excuse me if I got this wrong, but, are you saying that the chassis is the same and you switched only its interface card from DEC to Pericom?
The chassis has 2 boards: one that connects to the cable and to the computer interface, and another one that has the PCI slots. According to Magma (and my own experience), it won't work unless you change both boards. I had this problem, because I bought the expansion kit, and the PCI board was actually a PCI/PCI-X, and therefore larger than the other one, and didn't fit the case. I tried to use the Pericom interface card with the older PCI slot card, and it didn't work very well... Anyway, forgive me if I got this wrong.
Best of luck and happy thoughts to you! Don't let it get you down!
T
The chassis has 2 boards: one that connects to the cable and to the computer interface, and another one that has the PCI slots. According to Magma (and my own experience), it won't work unless you change both boards. I had this problem, because I bought the expansion kit, and the PCI board was actually a PCI/PCI-X, and therefore larger than the other one, and didn't fit the case. I tried to use the Pericom interface card with the older PCI slot card, and it didn't work very well... Anyway, forgive me if I got this wrong.
Best of luck and happy thoughts to you! Don't let it get you down!
T