First impressions

H-Rave · Post by **H-Rave** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:46 am

I've been sort of following (Yes,I'm an audio stalker ) the progress of Mr Casar who recently arrived,Welcome to you by the way.

I got round to thinking that there are many of us who've been using the platform ( THE Platform, sorry) for a very long time but can anyone remember their, yes you've gussed it, their first impressions.I don't know if this has been addressed before,but I thought I'd just throw it out there.

I was initially astounded by the Xtc mode, mainly because I couldn't figure out how the damn thing worked, and then the Dll rename thick when I got the first and second Pulsar 2s, it was the routing possibilities which blew me away.

I don't want to be nostalgic, because that would imply that the Creamware Platform was in the past, when we all know that the future is something Sonic-Core and Creamware have no Problem dealing with, and have the intelligence to apply accordingly.

I suppose that would be the Season of Christmas coming out in me, Oh and by the way, have a nice one

Richard

Oh and I completely bypassed that as well, THE FORUM, Yes I forgot PlanetZ And Mr John Cooper, whom I thank for helping me to enjoy writing again, Merry Christamas to You and Family.

Happy New Year

Casar · Post by **Casar** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:43 am

As if I would need to be more paranoid than I already am, stalker!

Seriously though, thank you for your welcome and sharing your thoughts.

Actually, I wrote a letter to sonic core about my reactions and thoughts as a new user - and as business developer!

I will paste it here. Now, before you burst out how disgraceful, unrealistic and what have you I am by suggesting this. It is all written from a business perspective and not engineering, clan, tribal, or religious perspective.

Having just recently bought the scope card and having had it for a bit I had some personal reflections on this product.

I have worked with business development within AT&T, pretty big business, and so I have a natural business oriented thinking! I am not going to write a business proposal but I felt like sharing my own thoughts on your platform.

I think there is a danger of becoming marginalized with peripheral platforms when the general market is looking towards convergence, ease, speed and integration. Unless, of course, there is a value-added component which causes surge for it anyway. VST has really become default synth and fx plugin standard on the PC. If I ran your company I would consider the following,

*Continue to make extremely highpowered cards and a mid-range card offering too.
*Make it possible to run native VST on them as well.
*Make it possible to run RTAS and TDM plugins in the XTC mode.
This will make a lot of people who can´t or don´t want to invest in Protools still
run their coveted plugins. There may be legal issues but I don´t think it will be a great issue.
*Perfect host integration (VST and possibly RTAS/TDM) with all functions.
*Make use of the Scope environment built for "dummies". "No thinking required" and some way to seamlessly co-operate with a host like cubase without having to consider how to patch, just "plug and play". You have to think like the market, not like an engineer, if you want to shift a lot of copies. If I want to use a scope mixer, let it automatically detect all the ins and outs and set it all up transparently and so that you can still work within the host GUI and use scope mixer as a simply as an alternative plug-in.
*Make ModularIII of course integrated in host environment.
*Make it possible to easily compile ModularIII devices as VSTi´s.
*Continue to focus on audio quality, something that makes anything simply sound better than default PC hosts. Like providing circuitry emulations to liven simple VST´s or whatever.
*Next generation graphical user interfaces towards sound design and production.
These synths are marvelous tools but they are not very intuitive for a non-experienced user who just want to plug and play. I await the one who will embed all these synth functions and great sounds in an interface that is different and extremely intuitive. There was a german guy, Kai Krause, who revolutionized GUI´s for 3D and 2D tools. Complex functions that required skilled engineers to build 3D imagery and 2D effects were embedded in his tools within a GUI that even a child could use. It became a massive hit and changed GUI design thinking a whole lot in the industry.
*Expand to Mac OS
*Integrate with Protools if possible.
*Make it possible to host security keys. A great relief to get rid of dongles and still provide protection required. Wishful thinking perhaps but just read the last article in Sound On Sound - it shows how everybody is getting fed up with protection devices and timeconsuming registration procedures. Time is extremely precious, that is why ease and speed of use is paramount in any valued-added offering.

I am no engineer but I do know that if the above was readily accessible, I believe it would sell a lot of units and thrive because I am rather familar with the market (as being one component of it!).

H-Rave · Post by **H-Rave** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:09 am

I think somebody to get it onto protools with the fxpansion wrapper in Xtc mode, but then as you said, a dummy would certainly find it difficult, I agree with you on the ease of use problem.I don't think venturing into the World of Scope is synonymous with the Mac mentality which is definitely Plug it in and start creating.

Oh, and right the religious question....., didn't anyone tell you we're a sect.No only joking, It's always the shock factor I find funny.

Casar · Post by **Casar** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:56 pm

stardust wrote:Hehe I am an old bone and find it refreshing that Casar still has the energy to propose improvements.

Back to topic:
My first impression was: The sound of the synths. No...at that time not Monimax or Prodyssey
It were the miniscope and the bluesynth and the saturn.

And the routing window which was really astatue of independence

They can´t be that unwilling to improve or evolve if they just recently reformed the business?

The better synths are really really nice, I got an immediate thing for Rotor EX, the pads sound alive. I guess you can accomplish the same in Solaris though.

My immediate impression was. "Great synths" (especially the bowen stuff and the prophets/minimax) - and "integration with Cubase could be better". Will see if I manage to setup mixing in Scope as well, to determine if I find it worth the struggle. Too bad ModularIII doesn´t show up in XTC. That would have been fun as well.

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:37 pm

I bought the card because I wanted something to offload virtual synths onto, the way the UAD offloaded effects. I was happy with the quality of the creamware synths, liked the flexibility of the creamware effects, but immediately was staggered by the routing window and modular synth possibilities (combined with the fact the system was real-time!) I didn't even try the Minimax demo till 6 months later, and I was immediately a believer, there is NO MISTAKING that sound! After that I bought all the analog emulation synths. And then I bought a Noah, wasting all that money I spent buying the plugs for the Pulsar card. That's life. In the last few years, getting the P100 reverb has been educational for me, as was mixing through the card rather than Cubase. At this point, I'm not at all worried about upgrades to the card, it works exactly the way I want it to work.

Sounddesigner · Post by **Sounddesigner** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:12 pm

My first impressions where of amazement. I could not believe how much quality software was stuffed on those 'little'

cards' and sold at that low price. I compared SCOPE Stuff constantly with that of other platforms and quickly realized that SCOPE had the main sounds i want in my music. Modular 3 just is a true general-purpose synth for my likes and needs in both sound and functioning. Every week after my first week i continued to be surprised as i learned something new or discovered another device i never knew i had

. It is a learning curve indeed tho. And tho in actuality SCOPE is a bang for the buck it still will force you to continuesly invest heavily in it, hopefully i'll be able to start buying clothes and food again soon. But who needs that stuff when you have Minimax right?

Post by **hubird** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:42 pm

Well, I was really lucky, a few days later and I would have missed Scope.

I went to one of the local music stores, the one which focusses on typical band gear ( I used to be a regular customer through the years, untill I went Atari in 1990).
I was looking for a new small digital hardware mixer, to get my hardware mixed with the Cubase tracks.

The young shop guy who occasionally was the one who I got to speak to, listened to my needs, and then showed me the Creamware studio, which was already impressive.
He also told me he would leave his job for good after a week, as he earned more mony with one 12" with dance mixes than in one month with his job.
You know that typical fitness center dance music?
It's terrible music mostly, but it doesn't distract you from training, so it works, and pop or rock music is much more worse!

His studio?
A former chicken stable, with three pc's filled with creamware cards, just outside the town.
That, together with the price (equal to any appropriate hw mixer) made me get the feeling to be on track with something really good.

He invited me to visit his studio and his studio mate, and he showed me how well integrated the external hardware and the sequencer and Scope software worked together.

So I was sold.
I don't think the shop ever sold one Scope set after he left his job, it was kinda his personal project at the time.
At that point my life changed forever...

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:26 am

i was originally going to get a Yamaha DSP Factory as i'd used on 01 desk and i think they were claiming it had the same effects as that. However i was undecided. i asked the music shop guy what he used and he said a Pulsar. Pulsar? Never heard of it, so did some research, found out the Pulsar2 was due in a few months time so waited for that. Not really understanding the whole Creamware thing i bought a Pulsar2 and a PowerSampler thinking that the sampler only worked on that card - i didn't realise that it would just act as an expander to the Pulsar2 card and that the Pulsar2 ran STS3000 anyway

To those who complain about lack of development: would i still be using (or even be able to use due to lack of updated drivers) my DSP Factory now? Doubt it.

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:36 am

I was very very green when I got my first Pulsar card

I had spent some time experimenting with making music using ReBirth and Fasttracker II, (I must have been about 16 years old then) and had decided I wanted to move into a bit more serious territory. I had read about the Pulsar in Computer Music magazine and it got a very good review as being an all-in-one studio on a card solution. For some reason this appealed to me and I ended up getting one, along with a copy of Cubase VST 5.
Keep in mind I didn't know how digital audio worked at all, let alone midi! The Pulsar became a sort of playground for me, the routing window taught me about how audio and midi worked. The bundled synths taught me how synths worked (I remember it took a long time before I figured out what envelopes did exactly

)

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:43 am

I was looking for i/o, basically, and scored a shop demo P1 & A16, fairly cheap at the time - damn, did that card distract me from whatever it was i originally meant to do with it

It's nice to know that big luscious pneumatic sound is there, when i want it. Beats the hell out of the comps & cards i went through in the 90's

Tau · Post by **Tau** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:22 am

At the time, I was looking for a DSP card that could do some fx to relieve my computer. In doubt between UAD, PoCo and Scope, I ended up ordering a 6DSP from jrrshop (it had free int'l shipping!!!), intrigued about the synths and the built in I/Os.

After I installed it, my first impression was to take it out again, and finish the damn album without it! It was sooooo confusing, and creamware support was a bit... oh well... let's not even talk about it.

After I finished what i was doing, I put it back in the computer, found PlanetZ, and got it working. And upon hearing the synths, I completely forgot about vsts and native stuff, ordered a 15 DSP and an A16 and it's been Scope ever since (now 36 DSPs, but needing a few more

). SpaceF, Flexor, Bowen synths, there's just no competition. My whole studio has been re-built around scope, and it'll take some seriously clever innovation, or catastrophe, to get me out of it (or it out of me...).

Casar · Post by **Casar** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:49 pm

My main incentive was actually John Bowen synths, without those I am not sure I would have bought it in the first place.

yish313 · Post by **yish313** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:40 pm

My first impression was when i opened the box and....Oh wait!!! That was the dream that I had.

Haven t gotten "my" Scope Card yet...

Sorry guys, I couldn't help myself.

I just wanna be apart of this small League of Extraordinary Dawgs so bad that I'm getting impatient.

Planet Z Home of The:
League of Extraordinary Dawgs
(LED)...I like

moxi · Post by **moxi** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:21 am

hi,

my first impression was "yeah! complicate, this pretty thing won't borred me in two days"...

the lack of DSP at the beggining, after some frustration, lead me to learn to think more depending of my needs than reacting at the proposal (yes, I'm one of this guy that have in my first dawn installed 2000 free or cracked Vst ! - and so surprised than my DAW shut down so often )

Then, the Optimaster WIzard quickly became my best friend here, let's say it's so rare to find people involved in shamanisme in the binary world...finaly he learn me enough so now I can run alone in the tweaking mistery

Soon after, I bought the MODULAR 3, none is so powerfull to learn you how synths work inside...I remeber when I go to work by a two hours travels, preparing virtual patchs in my head, to be ready to plugs as soon as back at home ... no way to invoke bugs here, if it's doesn't work, it's your fault...

that make me think different.

But why calling that "first impression" , this platform make you feel in a way that don't stop two month later...

Of course, there is also bad impression at the begginning (and now too, so), but they're not related to scope or hardware itself...no use to talk about that again...

"sometime I hate my Scope, sometime I love my Scope", as said Rut Manuva..something clearly human, a migration of the human oscillation in the 0 or/and/nor.. 1 world...

my last impression, so : how much can buziness disturb such a creative philosophy...

I'm sure Honk Kong buzinessman won't survive to the first impression Scope make us feel...

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:41 am

Casar wrote:Now, before you burst out how disgraceful, unrealistic and what have you I am by suggesting this. It is all written from a business perspective and not engineering, clan, tribal, or religious perspective.

Completely understood, but at least 30-40% of what's on your list is definitely not realistic at all. Dream on though. They might even include discount tokens for hotel stays on Mars in SCP5.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:47 am

Stardust, I've read your posts above & all over the rest of the forum in the past 12month+ taliking so negatively about Scope's maintenance & software bundling etc (bla bla bla), but did you even troll through the list of suggestions Casar sent to S|C? I mean they ain't gonna be doing stuff like getting any Native VST to run on your dsps in any hurry. No offence.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:20 am

Brotha' Man Casar,

I bought into the platform for the same reasons as you, Bowen Synths, and the B2003.

I heard the Logic Hammond emulation and even though it sounded excellent on the demo, my Logic pal A/B'd it on his Genelecs for me, and the DSP emulation was so much more realistic.

I have since purchased everything I liked from Creamware in hardware. and am on the list for Solaris pre paid.

That left me basically w/ a 45 DSP DAW for a giant Modular project w/ custom mixers and FX. I have had nothing but trouble when loading multiple Modular projects, and many of the sounds I like are locked polyphony modules.

But alas, SpaceF has made a new multi-timbral 4 way synth where I can use Flexor III, SpaceF, Wolf, and RD II Modules, and achieve what I wanted in Modular through his design.

I am currently making a 32 MIDI channel recording project using Wolf's 32 channel mixer, w/ various Modular devices instead of using Modular for synths only, and a 32 MIDI channel live project that's an all SpaceF design using the FB5 and MB4 multi BUSS blessing.

I can run an astounding number of Plug's and FX.

Gigastudio 4 will run all of my VSTi's.

My original design plans have changed, but I have adjusted to this new concept and pray that Mehdi's synth is the solution. The most incredible aspect of it, he usually can add little things you ask for as time goes by.
I know of no other platform where you can design your future in such a way.

Thanks to all of the SDK guys as well, making devices based on requests. That is awesome.

MCCY, Shroomz, Sharc, Hifiboom, j9k, megerov,.........................the list is long and distinguished, like my johnson.

This Is The Platform......Period.

siriusbliss · Post by **siriusbliss** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:44 am

Back in '99 I was initially impressed by the synths (what there was) - and I'm NOT a big synth guy.

Most of all I was impressed by the routability, flexibility, and of course the SOUND.

Pulsar I (pre-Scope) was unstable on my system, and I often ran out of DSP's with even smaller mixers and no reverb!

Nowadays it's evolved to 3 Scope cards and WAY more than I need in flexibility and horsepower.

And Scope still sounds awesome!

Greg

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:36 pm

stardust wrote:none taken. nor the allegation.

I didn't mean to be seem confrontational Stardust. It's just really sh*t to see so much negativity & whining because I happen to think we're all really lucky with regards to the Scope product & it's ongoing support given all of the circumstances. It's interesting to think of whether certain types of public commenting actually help in general. Still, in retrospect it's not my place to dig people up for expressing their opinions, since we should all be able to do that freely.

MD69 · Post by **MD69** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:49 pm

Hi,

Well, for me it have been a chaotic relationship!
Back 98, I evaluated the board and was not impressed by the synths (close to the Pro Five), FM7 was announced and there were KORG card close to release. I decided to stay with my DS2416 and SW1000 (I still have them!).
When Korg released its OASYS, there were a promo for a bundle of STS 3000 wityh the card. Ther Korg card was unstable with my DS2416, so I got the creamware bundle.
When they upgraded the STS (more filters, ...and introduced STS4000) the board was too short so I bought a SRB. A big mistake! I had so much troubles that I removed the cards and keep going with my DS2416. this situation perpetuated for 1 and a half year.

Then they announced the "XTC for all" offer. I took a strange decision: I got the offer bundled with an upgrade of my pulsar 1 to a 15 DSP board! Again a bit chaotic but gonzoft saved my days with his tips. Then I discovered John's synth and the race to more DSP, more synths begun!

Now, everything is close to perfect and I would not trade them for others even if these STDM cables are annoying when they get looses!

cheers

Michel