You're still missing the point - Scope drivers have no bug, they've been fine for the last 7 years on my system - and i've had VST5.1, SX3, Reaper demos, Samplitude demos, Live demos, Traktion demos all running fine. Then suddenly it doesn't work with a one particular Steinberg update - who do you think has the buggy software in that scenario? How are they going to fix something that has no bug? Maybe they could introduce a bug so it works with 4.1 only and no other sequencer.dragonfly wrote: Let me say this before I'm misunderstood again: This has no bearing on Vista support; as long as they include a bug fixed driver for 4.0 under Windows XP, they have essentially done all they are required to.
SonicCore charging money for a *driver*?
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Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
I agree it's more *likely* that the problem lies with Steinberg, but it is by no means certain. In any case, it is all hypothetical. We can't know who's fault it is until somebody comes out and admits it, so we can argue this point until hell freezes over and none of us will still be any wiser for it.Mr Arkadin wrote: Then suddenly it doesn't work with a one particular Steinberg update - who do you think has the buggy software in that scenario?
I'm sorry I brought up the point about Cubase, but I feel so frustrated with it right now that I just couldn't restrain myself.
I've played my own part in taking this thread off-topic, so I'll return to debating my original assertion of it being wrong for SonicCore to charge money for a driver update; I still stand by my opinion. Ignore the Cubase bug thing, it has no bearing on this debate, really.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
With the risk of running off-topic again, I agree. I'm not using Logic though, but Cubase really gives me the chill sometimes. :Sbill3107 wrote:In terms of bugs, it seems Logic and cubase 4 are the 2008 winner !
How's Sonar these days?
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
I assume you have to use the new drivers for all cards you have linked via stdm in a single system. it might be, nevertheless, not necessary to upgrade the sfp software to 5.0 just for using the new drivers, unless you actually want to run sfp on vista. iirc you can use sfp 4.x with any card driver, be it the one coming with 3.x or 4.x, so if the new drivers coming with 5.0 are not limited to vista, but also usable with xp they might run with 4.x also.MCCY wrote:I'm curious if one needs new drivers for all cards to use all devices on the cards...
afair you didn't get a 4.5 key entry, but a new (different) 4.0 key with the purchase of 4.5. if you have keyfiles prior to and after the upgrade, you should be able to distinguish a difference.I don't remember getting a seperate 4.5 key (although having purchased iot for one card), by the way, but I might be wrong.
this is a very interesting question. if sc/cw is the only source of activation keys (let aside UA) they should have a record of your keys created, be it from John Bowen, STW, SpaceF or whatever. if not, well, SC should develop a plan together with the 3rd parties...I own quite a few creamwarecards, devices spread all over them, so I can't believe that this procedure will be anyhow easy. Maybe we'll get all new keys for them... bravo ... I hope they can recreate those old sonic timeworks keys etc.
-greetings, markus-
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I'm sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
I'm sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
I hope, that upgrading = paying money has to be done once for ONE card in that chain = using plugs on all cards. Otherwise it will be 200 € x 3 = 600€ (if that will be the price for 5.0) for updating your scope-system with 3 cards to 5.0 = using your old devices under 5.0...I assume you have to use the new drivers for all cards you have linked via stdm in a single system. it might be, nevertheless, not necessary to upgrade the sfp software to 5.0 just for using the new drivers, unless you actually want to run sfp on vista.
I experienced errors, when trying to use older drivers, but I don't know which ones I tried... I thought 3.x wasn't working with 4... I am quite sure that 4.x will not accept a date with newer date-stamp.iirc you can use sfp 4.x with any card driver, be it the one coming with 3.x or 4.x,
That's VERY good to know. So at least it should be really easy to upgrade when you have cards with 4.5 on it. Good news (äh olds, I mean). Thanks!afair you didn't get a 4.5 key entry, but a new (different) 4.0 key with the purchase of 4.5. if you have keyfiles prior to and after the upgrade, you should be able to distinguish a difference.
That sounds very reasonable to me... olthough I'm quite sure that those mails between Mr. Olson (Sonic timeworks compressor X, 4080, STWEQ, Mastering Comp...) & me sounded like he could build those keys on his own. I may be wrong in this case (hopefully! - because not too long ago STW stated, that keyservice will only be for a short period).this is a very interesting question. if sc/cw is the only source of activation keys (let aside UA) they should have a record of your keys created, be it from John Bowen, STW, SpaceF or whatever. if not, well, SC should develop a plan together with the 3rd parties...
Martin
I`m pretty sure there won`t be any incompatibilities. but who knows. maybe they will just block loading dedicated dsp files from the old cw synths(4.5) in SFP5 and deliver new dsp files for the SFP5 versions of these cw synths....<~Shroomz~> wrote:Does anyone know if plugs made with CW's Scope sdk4.x will work on Scope 5.0 ??
That will render the synths that use the old dsp files unusable.
And then they have to deliver extra keys to all users that have the old version...
That doesn`t affect copyprotection nor other devices.
Seriously they cannot change the whole copyprotection sheme. This would lead to extra work on 3rd parties also.
I guess, finding a solution on phone would have been easier.
but at the end it brings us to the point that soniccore soon or later has to generate new value by making new device stuff to make serious cash.
I guess many users already have many of the plug-ins through upgrade offers...
there are enough options: new reverbs, analog modelling comp, vintage modelled synths, modern synths like waldorf q and so on....
just look at the tc guys, they deliver new devices continiously:
http://www.tcelectronic.com/PowerCore.asp
to hold up their cash income...
when did the last creamware device appear? 2003 ? prodyssey? don`t know...
but maybe they won`t put anymore effort in this platform as they already work on the next step and think investigating in the old platfform is lost time.
We don`t know....
but we do know that the hardware Solaris got an entirely new synth engine running at 96k on the latest Sharc DSPs and it does in fact sound quite different from the Scope plugin version.
We also know that John Bowen isn't the guy to say eventually '...nice jobs folks, now let's store the blueprints at a safe place...'
There will be a lot of synergy effects from that project reflecting back on the card based software platform. Just like TC Works re-releases all their hardware devices in small slices as software - or as re-boxed hardware (guitar fx etc).
these things have always required a reasonable amount of time - but unfortunately in this special case there's also a ton of extra stuff regarding execution rights and DRM of the bloody OS they got to deal with.
Mind you - Scope routing as we know it is a no-go in Vista's brave new view of the digital world - at least imho
cheers, Tom
We also know that John Bowen isn't the guy to say eventually '...nice jobs folks, now let's store the blueprints at a safe place...'
There will be a lot of synergy effects from that project reflecting back on the card based software platform. Just like TC Works re-releases all their hardware devices in small slices as software - or as re-boxed hardware (guitar fx etc).
these things have always required a reasonable amount of time - but unfortunately in this special case there's also a ton of extra stuff regarding execution rights and DRM of the bloody OS they got to deal with.
Mind you - Scope routing as we know it is a no-go in Vista's brave new view of the digital world - at least imho
cheers, Tom
well, if the supplier of content (say a DVD) decides that the one and only target of the audio stream is the speaker of your home theater system, then the playback device (let's assume your PC with the Scope card) has to guarantee that no 'sidechaining' is possible. No cheating by a simple cable from Wave to ASIO channels 
otherwise the device will not be approved and not be able to playback the content, oops
cheers, Tom
(correct me if I'm wrong - I'd rather like to be...)
otherwise the device will not be approved and not be able to playback the content, oops
cheers, Tom
(correct me if I'm wrong - I'd rather like to be...)
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Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
not to be misunderstood, the point is not if an aweful lot of people suddenly want their audio streams protected or not - but how do you want to implement THAT feature in Scope ???
if your driver isn't able to provide the protection, then it will not get certified - in other words: the OS will refuse to 'use' it.
And soon someone will complain ...but it doesn't playback my...
I'm simply assuming the 'worst case scenario' - no idea if partial implemetations or a limited set of 'services' can be valid, too.
cheers, Tom
if your driver isn't able to provide the protection, then it will not get certified - in other words: the OS will refuse to 'use' it.
And soon someone will complain ...but it doesn't playback my...
I'm simply assuming the 'worst case scenario' - no idea if partial implemetations or a limited set of 'services' can be valid, too.
cheers, Tom
I recently moved a bunch of devices from one card to the other, all third party plugs, the STW bundle included, and Mister Bach at SC did the job just fine in an incredibly short time. And that in full Xmas Special time. Super...MCCY wrote:That sounds very reasonable to me... olthough I'm quite sure that those mails between Mr. Olson (Sonic timeworks compressor X, 4080, STWEQ, Mastering Comp...) & me sounded like he could build those keys on his own. I may be wrong in this case (hopefully! - because not too long ago STW stated, that keyservice will only be for a short period).this is a very interesting question. if sc/cw is the only source of activation keys (let aside UA) they should have a record of your keys created, be it from John Bowen, STW, SpaceF or whatever. if not, well, SC should develop a plan together with the 3rd parties...
Martin
andy
the lunatics are in the hall
the lunatics are in the hall
I know Soniccore has several projects but that they also want to launch/release only stable things so we will get the new stuff little by little believe me ! That's Holger's philophy. We cannot put the blame on Soniccore for that. Creamware is dead...Soniccore is just a new philodophy soooo wait and see..... In the meantime 3rd party developpement is alive (Flexor, DAS, Spacef, COS/VOID, Dynatubes, BXdigital ...)
well, I'm almost certain that it is not restricted to hd video content, as the latter wouldn't bother me at allhifiboom wrote:that does apply only to hdcp protected video data...
Astro, I think this is a bit of "Über-Paranoia" you are now spreading....
Someone here gave a link to M$'s whitepapers regarding DRM soon before the VISTA release and it clearly said that the provider of content could define the degree of protection.
It wouldn't even be possible to re-digitize an audio CD as the analog path could be blocked if the owner of rights decided so.
cheers, Tom
no paranoia in this context at all, as it doesn't concern me anyway
Well Xp is part of the 'NT' lineage of MS operating systems:
NT 3> NT 3.51> NT4> Win2000 (NT 5.0)> WinXP (NT 5.1)> Vista
Win98 was part of the 16bit MS os's with DOS underpinnings:
win 3.1> win95> win98> win98SE (usb and wdm drivers)> winME (broken networking)
So more changed when moving the bulk of the market from Win98SE/ME to WinXP than is changing from WinXP to Vista. The driver model and UI codebase have changed between Xp & Vista, although there is some backwards compatibility in place, especially for 32bit Vista & 32bit drivers (64bit vista has 0 backwards compatibility for most drivers, only for degrading the 'Aero' interface back to GDI level).
NT 3> NT 3.51> NT4> Win2000 (NT 5.0)> WinXP (NT 5.1)> Vista
Win98 was part of the 16bit MS os's with DOS underpinnings:
win 3.1> win95> win98> win98SE (usb and wdm drivers)> winME (broken networking)
So more changed when moving the bulk of the market from Win98SE/ME to WinXP than is changing from WinXP to Vista. The driver model and UI codebase have changed between Xp & Vista, although there is some backwards compatibility in place, especially for 32bit Vista & 32bit drivers (64bit vista has 0 backwards compatibility for most drivers, only for degrading the 'Aero' interface back to GDI level).