Portable digital recorders?

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:29 am

Hello to all!

I'd like your advice and recommendations on small portable stereo digital recorders. Basically, I need one for two reasons:
1) for rehearsal recordings
2) to record concerts for study purposes

I have found on the net the Zoom H4 and the Edirol R-09, and I remember there are also the Sony MiniDisc recorders... Has anyone of you ever used any of these? Which one would you recommend me? Are there any other choices?

Thank you very much in advance for your help!

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:36 am

i have the Zoom H4 and love it - great for recording rehearsals and environmental samples. For me the great advantage over the others was the XLR/jack inputs, rather than poxy minijacks which are useless and require you to take a load of adapters with you. The XLRs are great for plugging in mics and the jacks can take a directs feed off the mixer if you prefer that to the inbuilt mics. Also does four track recording and can supply phantom power too. i can get just over three hours on it at 44.1/24bit.

petal · Post by **petal** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:35 am

There's also the M-Audio Microtrack, which has served my purposes well for the past year and a half.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:52 am

I (still) use a minidisc recorder for that type of recordings, and it works flawlessly, until somebody wishes to have a cd of the concert (for studying purposes, for example). then you realize that you have to play back the disc and record it to either a standalone cd recorder (which I don't have) or to the input of one of my scope cards, open audacity (which is my favourite for that kind of work) and press record (and cut it afterwards).

the new generation of mobile recorders has the undoubted advantage of recording to media like CF which you can plug into a card reader, or even have an usb connection to grab the wav (or mp3 files) off it (like my camera does).

the MD recorder itself is very robust, as is the media. having it in my pocket saved my day several times (where my mate's powerbook somehow erroneous recorded 16 or more tracks with silence

-greetings, markus-

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:41 am

imho the Boss Micro BR is worth a serious look - 4 tracks and 44.1khz 16 bit records on SD disks. The internal mic is said to be stunning (for the size).
I've tried it with a Jazz Bass and it got along pretty well - it will probably replace my Korg Pandora practice amp in near future

cheers, Tom

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:08 am

Thank you guys for your responses!.. I still have not decided... I was leaning towards the Zoom, but I have read that it has quite a few issues (some with work-arounds, some with not)... The R09 I have read that is a bit noisy/hissy.. the Micro sounds interesting but is beyond the work I want to do (simply record)... however, it seems to be cheaper than the other two.. hmm... but how is the recording quality compared to the other ones?
..a minidisk was the first thing that had come to my mind.. but you cannot handle very easily their recordings into a PC afterwards etc..

mmm.. still confused and undecided...

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:07 am

I have the m-audio microtrack. The bad thing is that it does not use standard batteries nor is the battery user replaceable. It can be powered by USB or a USB battery which is basically 2 AA batteries with a USB cable. I have to say it sounds good. I have not tried it with expensive microphones yet. I sometimes use the little microphones it came with. I replaced the 128 meg card with a 1 gig card. You need that for wav files, otherwise there is an option to record to mp3.

I could hear no difference recording at 96 KHZ.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:39 am

rodos1979 wrote: I was leaning towards the Zoom, but I have read that it has quite a few issues (some with work-arounds, some with not)...

Like what? Ask away and i'll try and help - these may be non-issues.

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:32 pm

Thanks Braincell for sharing with me your experience

Mr Arkadin wrote:[
Like what? Ask away and i'll try and help - these may be non-issues.

From what I have read:
- there is an audible (and visible as a wave form in a DAW) periodic tone (corresponding to the blinking of the H4 access light, when recording at 44.1 and 48 KHz
- MP3 recordings at 256kps or VBR contain squeaky noises
- case transmits handling noise

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:03 pm

rodos1979 wrote: From what I have read:
- there is an audible (and visible as a wave form in a DAW) periodic tone (corresponding to the blinking of the H4 access light, when recording at 44.1 and 48 KHz

This is why i asked - i knew this would come up. It really is a non-issue unless you are recording butterfly wings from 10 metres away - you will never hear it for normal level things and as for at gig level

. Also this only appears when using batteries i believe. There is a mod, but it involves a bit of soldering so invalidates your warranty.

rodos1979 wrote: - MP3 recordings at 256kps or VBR contain squeaky noises

i have never used the mp3 mode so i can't confirm/deny - give me a while to try it out (i always use 24bit 44.1). i've not seen this mentioned on the H4 Forum.

rodos1979 wrote: - case transmits handling noise

True it does, but so do some mics i've used

If you're recording a rehearsal or gig i assume you're you're not going to moving about a lot - just set it up and leave it. If you want to record butterflies in a field then you may need a tripod adaptor (you could use a gun-type handle if such a thing exists).

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:19 pm

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:56 pm

Hmm... have you seen the price of the Nagra though? Blimey! There's also a nice Sony that looks like a pro version of the H4, but that has a hefty tag too:

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:10 pm

Sony is nice with the mics at 45 degrees angle, high sampling rate of 96KHz, however those analog meters could be sensitive to shock IMO. A small kick and they don't point to zero anymore (or whatever the lower left value is, --20db).

pseudojazzer · Post by **pseudojazzer** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:00 am

Hi Rodos,
I've been using the R-09 for a while now, and i find it very useful, i bought the little tripod for it as well

I havnt yet attached any external mics - and i'm sure that you would get even better results with a quality external, but the internal mics are seemingly quite sensitive, and for recording speech its great.
I've also recorded guitars, audience noises, trains and the sea - mostly with very usable results. I cant compare wheter its more noisey/hissy than other models, and personaly thats no too much of a prob as i have the mighty osirisxp! yee har!
A couple of nice features on the unit are the lowcut swtich, it has "automatic gain control" which its not too bad at all - when recording speech its a great "set and forget" switch. you can also record in stereo/mono, to wav and mp3 of varying rates up to 24bit/48KHz or 320 kbps depending on how much recording time you want from the unit. For transfer to pc of mac it couldnt be easier...usb OR use the internal card in a card reader (SD i think, havnt used it).
There are a couple of things that i would complain about though (albeit very minor things) first, is that it just doesnt seem that sturdy, being housed in a light plastic, i would want it to be a little heavier, but thats just aesthetic. More importantly, where the batteries are housed (2 AAs) the unit has a rather flimsy opening, open it half way and you get access to the card and the usb port, but to change the batteries you have to slide a little catch and push to reveal the compartment. So long as you are careful this is not an issue, but i have felt wary when repalcing the batteries. Just something to look out for..
Hope thats a help.
Tom

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:48 pm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec06/a ... zoomh4.htm

The competition's hotting up

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:21 pm

For me the H2 isn't as good because it doesn't have XLR/jack inputs - it's amazing how much more versatile the inclusion of these make the H4. If i was going to have something with minijacks i would get a Roland R-09 or the Korg MR1 (the Korg one is a bit expensive though, even if it does have 20GB).

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:07 pm

The reason the Korg MR1 is so expensive is because it has 1-bit/2.8 MHz recording and playback. That is said to be the future of digital recording.

http://korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_prod_no=MR1

You could triple the price if you add good microphones and preamp.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:04 am

I've been using iriver's H340 for some time. The H3x0 series has excellent converters for field recording, and superb battery life (over 10hrs w built-in batteries, check the extra's packs this box has:), but it has no XLR inputs.

Check out how versatile it is using the Rockbox OS!! My favorite features are the 30sec pre-recording (from line/mic-in, built-in mic, FM radio to near lots of formats), the convertors, 40GB disk, and of course rockbox' games ;) Who cares for 32bit 96kHz solely for recording? I don't, see discussion of that in other topics here on Z.

Iriver stopped producing this box about 2yrs ago, I was so happy when I finally found a forgotten 40Gb unit somewhere. A bit like the Studio Projects B1 which I found in Dijon, France, last week, at about 40% of its original price. It was lying in a forgotten corner of some music shop :]