Hi, I have only heard of Creamware Pulsar a few days ago, and after googling a bit and reading about it's specs and good reviews I got so hungry for it I got one for myself ordered, but now I just found this site, and after some reading here, I am thinking I may have rushed into it. (It was a second hand Pulsar 1 just below 200€).
The thing is I'm not even sure it will serve me right. Not despising the product ( I haven't received it yet) I read it's got some great UI, mixer, FX, synth, routings and all, but what about real world connections?
I am just getting into home music as a hobbyist, and I still don't know much about the music/studio thing. I got myself a tinny little midi o2 controller from m-audio and also have Live Ableton and Reason which I use/like the most for it's many options.
Now, I have a friend that also plays the bass and would like to be able to plug the bass or any other sound sources into the computer for messing with the sound/recording/making live tweaks etc, and I'm not sure I will be able to do that with my supposed (great, or so I though at the time) purchase of this Pulsar card. How does it work? Does it have any ready connections, or do I need to go and buy more expensive pro equipment, spending more money?
If so I was better of getting a simple N x N I/O card instead of a old, not-so-cheap (outdated?) DSP beast (only 4 DSPs).
Thanks for your time and any input/help welcome!
Wrong/bad aquisition?
hello.
you paid very little for what you got.
yes, you'll need a DI box and mic preamp of some sort(like on a mixer you already have, or a bass preamp of some sort)). but, yes, it also has a pair of analog ins and a pair of digital ins(and outs). yes, it also has 16 more digital channels on two sets of adat lightpipe connectors(8 channels of digital on each). these can be accessed by many different converter boxes and devices. you also have midi in out and thru.
you need to start learning about basic recording techniques, because you now have a real studio. hooray!!
live is just another multitrack tape deck(a virtual one that does tricks).
you can easily expand and update this card with a later card(up to two more). adding cards adds i/o and processing power.
GOOD GEAR IS NEVER OBSOLETE!!! there's still no competing product, all these years later. a scope card is more than just an interface. it's also synths, effects, mixers and other REAL studio gear(there are several bass amps that sound very real), so there's always expansion possible. the older version of the card doesn't perform as well as the newer cards, but it runs the same software and it still works well. i still have my first pulsar1, bought when it was new. i also have a new scope professional in the same machine. this man also still uses a pulsar1: http://www.williamgoldstein.com/ check out his body of work. if you can't make a million dollars with the card, it won't be the card's fault.
the thing about computers is not to be in too big a hurry. you have much to learn. be patient and you'll do great things. you can't learn everything overnight...
you paid very little for what you got.
yes, you'll need a DI box and mic preamp of some sort(like on a mixer you already have, or a bass preamp of some sort)). but, yes, it also has a pair of analog ins and a pair of digital ins(and outs). yes, it also has 16 more digital channels on two sets of adat lightpipe connectors(8 channels of digital on each). these can be accessed by many different converter boxes and devices. you also have midi in out and thru.
you need to start learning about basic recording techniques, because you now have a real studio. hooray!!
live is just another multitrack tape deck(a virtual one that does tricks).
you can easily expand and update this card with a later card(up to two more). adding cards adds i/o and processing power.
GOOD GEAR IS NEVER OBSOLETE!!! there's still no competing product, all these years later. a scope card is more than just an interface. it's also synths, effects, mixers and other REAL studio gear(there are several bass amps that sound very real), so there's always expansion possible. the older version of the card doesn't perform as well as the newer cards, but it runs the same software and it still works well. i still have my first pulsar1, bought when it was new. i also have a new scope professional in the same machine. this man also still uses a pulsar1: http://www.williamgoldstein.com/ check out his body of work. if you can't make a million dollars with the card, it won't be the card's fault.
the thing about computers is not to be in too big a hurry. you have much to learn. be patient and you'll do great things. you can't learn everything overnight...
Last edited by garyb on Fri May 11, 2007 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
To illustrate, consider recording your friend's bass.
SonicCore (now the parent company for Scope cards) has 2 Dynatube bass amp/cab simulator models available for scope cards that run a paltry $69 Eu each: Dynatube AG & Dynatube SW
To get the signal into the card you could use:
The standard stage/studio 'workhorse' DI box ($165 or so): Countryman Type 85.
D.W. Fearn Passive Direct Box for $300 or so, the upgrade to the previous & not really something i'd take on stage.
The real question is if you got the 'pro' version of the card or not (XLR?).
Now, once you have all that wired up you can split his input to record it 'dry' into your sequencer (Live) while he has an audio feed from the card's output that has the amp/cab simulation treating it for him to 'monitor' the results. Working this way allows the flexibility of changing the treatment later if you're recording full performances. If you just want to catch some quick loops you could do the processing and then split the signal to be recorded & sent to the card's outputs.
The advantage here is that using the Scope cards the performance of the modelling has NO latency so it feels natural to perform/record with. This isn't achievable using something like Amplitube or Ampeg because the audio must pass into the computer, be processed and then be routed out.
The same thing applies to your vocal recording too, only you'll want a mic pre, a decent mic and so on.
SonicCore (now the parent company for Scope cards) has 2 Dynatube bass amp/cab simulator models available for scope cards that run a paltry $69 Eu each: Dynatube AG & Dynatube SW
To get the signal into the card you could use:
The standard stage/studio 'workhorse' DI box ($165 or so): Countryman Type 85.
D.W. Fearn Passive Direct Box for $300 or so, the upgrade to the previous & not really something i'd take on stage.
The real question is if you got the 'pro' version of the card or not (XLR?).
Now, once you have all that wired up you can split his input to record it 'dry' into your sequencer (Live) while he has an audio feed from the card's output that has the amp/cab simulation treating it for him to 'monitor' the results. Working this way allows the flexibility of changing the treatment later if you're recording full performances. If you just want to catch some quick loops you could do the processing and then split the signal to be recorded & sent to the card's outputs.
The advantage here is that using the Scope cards the performance of the modelling has NO latency so it feels natural to perform/record with. This isn't achievable using something like Amplitube or Ampeg because the audio must pass into the computer, be processed and then be routed out.
The same thing applies to your vocal recording too, only you'll want a mic pre, a decent mic and so on.
garyb wrote: you paid very little for what you got.
I have found a similar product for -75€ then I paid and a bunch of pluggins I don't think I'll be having. Still:
I don't have any home/studio hardware gear at all. And I was expecting to do without buying it, considering I have software that can do the same, or so I read in other producer forums (futureproducers.com, where I first heard of the SCOPE in a occasional video) as long as I have a quality audio interface and not just a computer soundcard.garyb wrote: yes, you'll need a DI box and mic preamp of some sort(like on a mixer you already have, or a bass preamp of some sort))
Btw the link is dead, does that speak against your line of speech?
I don't think it is the pro version because it's PULSAR I with 4 DSPs, the old pro has 14 DSPs right?valis wrote:To illustrate, consider recording your friend's bass.
SonicCore (now the parent company for Scope cards) has 2 Dynatube bass amp/cab simulator models available for scope cards that run a paltry $69 Eu each: Dynatube AG & Dynatube SW
To get the signal into the card you could use:
The standard stage/studio 'workhorse' DI box ($165 or so): Countryman Type 85.
D.W. Fearn Passive Direct Box for $300 or so, the upgrade to the previous & not really something i'd take on stage.
The real question is if you got the 'pro' version of the card or not (XLR?).
So you have answered my question, instead of spending 150$ on a NxN I/O card without (or with there was this EMU card for the same price with two modules, 1/4 jack and DSP processing) the extra studio inside, I spent 200€ and now for some basic, hobby-like toying I need to spend another 234$ (173€)?
Oh I'm so happy, not, being a broke student that is.
I was thinking, by what I've read in other forums (like FP) that the latency issue using a computer depends mostly on the quality of the audio interface, so a good stand alone Firewire or maybe even internal PCI that doesn't have all the DSP thingie but good latency would suffice.valis wrote: The advantage here is that using the Scope cards the performance of the modelling has NO latency so it feels natural to perform/record with.
Do you also mean the software introduces latency? Reason can load up dozens of devices, synth, samplers, mixers, drum machines, FX, and so on without taxing the CPU at all. And with ASIO4all v2 it can receive live input from outside to tweak it. Maybe it's not studio quality or SCOPE quality, but I'm not sure in what part that reflects exactly.
those 200 bucks aren't for 'hobby-like toying' - you'd have to spend at least such an amount with any interface to 'professionally' record a bass or electric guitar.phobik wrote:...So you have answered my question, instead of spending 150$ on a NxN I/O card without (or with there was this EMU card for the same price with two modules, 1/4 jack and DSP processing) the extra studio inside, I spent 200€ and now for some basic, hobby-like toying I need to spend another 234$ (173€)?
...
Cheapo pre-amp stages simply s*ck the tone out of the instrument and will most likely be frustrating.
I also have a Pulsar One, a 335 like Hoyer semi acoustic and a Hohner Jack bass, which I both consider fine instruments.
I relied on specs and those 'audio proofs' on mag CDs, so I got me a cheapo Midiman Audiobuddy... since 'specs' matched and it looked like a 3 birds with one stone affair... LOL, I should have known better
The Audiobuddy isn't totally bad, but looses hands-down in transparency compared to the direct out of my Ibanez ValBee (a 6Watt tube practice thingy).
The Valbee on the other hand fails completely on bass (but still outperforms the Midiman) - a bodyless, fluff tone.
So I gave the Radial Technology's 'Bassbone' a chance - 250 Euro (outch) for a preamp - wow, that was kind of a revelation...
You don't pay for the parts - the electronic isn't worth $30 - you pay for engineering
I know that basses' tone inside out with various plugins and I can assure you the Radial box really turned it into something else. There's a (pre-eq) setting on it, that's frequently crizitized in reviews as 'too high, too flat', which is indeed correct if you send it to a neutral amp... but through a limiter and an 'overemphasized' bass setting on the amp side it comes out as a dry kick straight to the solarplexus...
You really wouldn't expect that from listening to that setting in 'clean' context, and that's the proof that the dudes at Radial know their job.
I was very, very sceptic when trying it - particular as the 2nd thing was to open it and have a look at the circuit... the sound and handling spoke for themselves.
This thing makes a bass breath and speak with it's own voice - the guitar amp and the multi-purpose cheapo just spoil it.
I may add that (of course) I also tried some native plugins for bass and guitar, with some very reputable ones - none comes even close to what the Pulsar devices do
A/B ing Guitar Rig or Voxengo's Boogex versus (say) Celmo's Bassamp Sim is shocking to say at least.
With Pulsar you come as close to analog as it gets imho - you just don't know it yet, don't worry - keep rocking
cheers, Tom
Actually what it means is: does the version of the card you bought have RCA (phono style) or XLR i/o's?phobik wrote:I don't think it is the pro version because it's PULSAR I with 4 DSPs, the old pro has 14 DSPs right?valis wrote:To illustrate, consider recording your friend's bass.
....The real question is if you got the 'pro' version of the card or not (XLR?).
I'm not sure I would refer to Scope as "basic, hobby-like toying", especially when compared an Emu soundcard. The Emu might have built in dsp as well but it's nowhere near the level of what you can get for FREE for the scope card in the Device forum at the bottom of the main page of these forums, let alone the commercial solutions available for this platform. Btw I started with a Pulsar1 myself and didn't add a Pulsar2 (6 dsp card) until several years later.phobik wrote: So you have answered my question, instead of spending 150$ on a NxN I/O card without (or with there was this EMU card for the same price with two modules, 1/4 jack and DSP processing) the extra studio inside, I spent 200€ and now for some basic, hobby-like toying I need to spend another 234$ (173€)?
Oh I'm so happy, not, being a broke student that is.
[/quote]phobik wrote:I was thinking, by what I've read in other forums (like FP) that the latency issue using a computer depends mostly on the quality of the audio interface, so a good stand alone Firewire or maybe even internal PCI that doesn't have all the DSP thingie but good latency would suffice.valis wrote: The advantage here is that using the Scope cards the performance of the modelling has NO latency so it feels natural to perform/record with.
Do you also mean the software introduces latency? Reason can load up dozens of devices, synth, samplers, mixers, drum machines, FX, and so on without taxing the CPU at all. And with ASIO4all v2 it can receive live input from outside to tweak it. Maybe it's not studio quality or SCOPE quality, but I'm not sure in what part that reflects exactly.
The latency I was referring to has to do with 'monitoring' the result of what you're trying to record, as you mentioned that you wanted to record your vocals and your friend's bass. With a typical soundcard you would route the signal through your software to add effects (like the amp/cab simulation) and then back to an output. This will give you a round-trip latency that's greater than 2x the card's buffer settings (ASIO latency in other words). With the Scope cards you can add effects to the signal and route it back out before it ever even enters the software giving you what is basically a very flexible piece of rack gear in a real studio. Plus you can then add synths, do mixing etc using the same card.
The Emu cards have nowhere near the same level of quality in their 'dsp', but admittedly for a novice it might be difficult to tell the difference.
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Liquid Len
- Posts: 652
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What it boils down to is, if you spend time learning how to use this card, you will wonder how you ever did without it. It has quality recording tools from a-z, I know it's probably a little daunting, but the religious intensity of the supporters of this card should tell you it's the best kept secret of the audio card world. Sounds like a cliche, but it's true.
Hi Shroomz and the others.
@ Valis: I don't mean to say that Pulsar is for toy-ing, I meant that's what I'm after, at least at this early stage. And I don't mean to question any of it's potential/power/features or anything, but to question if it was an ideal purchase for my (basic) needs.
For what I have found, besides having spent my whole budget on a rush, it still isn't enough to do what I want, and that I have to spend near as much again.
To be honest I didn't even need this, I just saw a video of a guy talking about it, did some research and then though I was doing a good deal buying it.
Which you all have stated is true, but you aer only looking through your Scope-Loving-glasses, not from my situational point-of-view.
I mean, it's like, why buy a Ferrari, if all you need is a mini to carry your weekly groceries? You'll get the Ferrari dirty, scratched, and probably not even user-friendly for the task you need (the scrathcing obvs doesn't aply here).
But noone questions that the Ferrari has more horse power, but in your need it's besides the point.
I really can't afford to buy any of the extras you guys refer, like AD/DA converters and pré-amps. all my budget went kaput.
I guess I thought that the card was more versatile, or maybe more cheapo like multi-task like you mention.
I'm not saying it's your fault wither, I just wanted some insight, of what I was getting/got myself into and how to deal with it for what I want/need with the further least expense possible.
Thanks all.
@ Valis: I don't mean to say that Pulsar is for toy-ing, I meant that's what I'm after, at least at this early stage. And I don't mean to question any of it's potential/power/features or anything, but to question if it was an ideal purchase for my (basic) needs.
For what I have found, besides having spent my whole budget on a rush, it still isn't enough to do what I want, and that I have to spend near as much again.
To be honest I didn't even need this, I just saw a video of a guy talking about it, did some research and then though I was doing a good deal buying it.
Which you all have stated is true, but you aer only looking through your Scope-Loving-glasses, not from my situational point-of-view.
I mean, it's like, why buy a Ferrari, if all you need is a mini to carry your weekly groceries? You'll get the Ferrari dirty, scratched, and probably not even user-friendly for the task you need (the scrathcing obvs doesn't aply here).
But noone questions that the Ferrari has more horse power, but in your need it's besides the point.
I really can't afford to buy any of the extras you guys refer, like AD/DA converters and pré-amps. all my budget went kaput.
I guess I thought that the card was more versatile, or maybe more cheapo like multi-task like you mention.
I'm not saying it's your fault wither, I just wanted some insight, of what I was getting/got myself into and how to deal with it for what I want/need with the further least expense possible.
Thanks all.
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hubird
I'm too late already to tell you that imho Phobic was referring to his own 'entry' in music making, nl. 'basic hobby-like toying'.
It can be found back in his very first post of this thread
He was just valueing the price he payed and the costs he should have to make to serve that goal
It's the way I understood it from start, so the Z factor must have been hard working at you guys
Phobic, yet you are thinking in a wrong way.
You didn't think enough about what you'd need to do what you want, namely recording external gear.
Sell the card, you won't loose so much, or be happy with the unintended 'find', as it's quality and perfectly expandable with soft- and hardware.
In my opinion, you should be happy with what you got, and enlarge your horizont with a few months, as you can only win, without loosing any mony compared to other solutions.
Mostly one has to sweep himself to that higher level of existence, you was so lucky to roll into it
It can be found back in his very first post of this thread
He was just valueing the price he payed and the costs he should have to make to serve that goal
It's the way I understood it from start, so the Z factor must have been hard working at you guys
Phobic, yet you are thinking in a wrong way.
You didn't think enough about what you'd need to do what you want, namely recording external gear.
Sell the card, you won't loose so much, or be happy with the unintended 'find', as it's quality and perfectly expandable with soft- and hardware.
In my opinion, you should be happy with what you got, and enlarge your horizont with a few months, as you can only win, without loosing any mony compared to other solutions.
Mostly one has to sweep himself to that higher level of existence, you was so lucky to roll into it
well, if it's about toying instead of toying then maybe toying with hardware can be rewarding...
just dig into some DIY pages and save $ a few hundred - the stuff is battery powered, so no harm for the beginner.
http://www.runoffgroove.com/ruby.html
is just an example (for the nice pics) - google DIY and guitar preamp and there will be tons of pages and forums
cheers, Tom
just dig into some DIY pages and save $ a few hundred - the stuff is battery powered, so no harm for the beginner.
http://www.runoffgroove.com/ruby.html
is just an example (for the nice pics) - google DIY and guitar preamp and there will be tons of pages and forums
cheers, Tom
Ok thanks for the clarification phobik. There's a lot of that 'toy/game' music about these days btw, some of it is quite nice
Also I don't think that you HAVE to purchase the things we recommended. When you're dealing with audio, a great rule of thumb is that any audio path is only as good as the cheapest device in it. Since most of us here are well aware of that fact and trying to 'get a leg up' with what we already own, what we've recommended so far is with that in mind. By no means do you HAVE to purchase everything else new and of the quality we're recommending.
Please however, if I knew you 'in real life' I would go to a bit more effort to convince you to at least try what you've wound up with for a while. Based on what you purchased already I think you'll find that you can do a great deal. At this point you've got the card so I would at least spend a few weeks fiddling with it and seeing what your options are before deciding to move to something else. That's me though...
Now with that in mind, your card *already* has AD/DA right? If it's not an SRB (which is just an expander board with dsp's alone) it should have at least stereo in & stereo out. All you're missing is a preamp for your mic (do you have a mic? does it even need a pre?) and some way to get the bassist's signal in, or instruments in general.
I think second hand you could probably come by quite serviceable gear that would work fine for your needs. or even new something like this: http://www.presonus.com/tubepre.html is quite serviceable and would allow you to record your vocals and the bass just fine. The question still remains, what kind of connectors do you see on the card for your audio i/o? XLR or rca?
Also I don't think that you HAVE to purchase the things we recommended. When you're dealing with audio, a great rule of thumb is that any audio path is only as good as the cheapest device in it. Since most of us here are well aware of that fact and trying to 'get a leg up' with what we already own, what we've recommended so far is with that in mind. By no means do you HAVE to purchase everything else new and of the quality we're recommending.
Please however, if I knew you 'in real life' I would go to a bit more effort to convince you to at least try what you've wound up with for a while. Based on what you purchased already I think you'll find that you can do a great deal. At this point you've got the card so I would at least spend a few weeks fiddling with it and seeing what your options are before deciding to move to something else. That's me though...
Now with that in mind, your card *already* has AD/DA right? If it's not an SRB (which is just an expander board with dsp's alone) it should have at least stereo in & stereo out. All you're missing is a preamp for your mic (do you have a mic? does it even need a pre?) and some way to get the bassist's signal in, or instruments in general.
I think second hand you could probably come by quite serviceable gear that would work fine for your needs. or even new something like this: http://www.presonus.com/tubepre.html is quite serviceable and would allow you to record your vocals and the bass just fine. The question still remains, what kind of connectors do you see on the card for your audio i/o? XLR or rca?