who said i have a gun?
as long as it's not for wantonly killing another human being without just cause, what business is it to anyone?
Mass Murderer Gets 98% Positive Feedback On Ebay
Actually it is illegal to cary a knive of more than 7cm in public in Denmark. And when I say trend, I don't mean, that it happens a lot. I just mean that this is (my subjective feeling however) often the way it happens - when it happens.
The argument about aloving guns, because knives kills too, is however strange in my eyes. Cho wouldn't be able to kill that many people with a knife. That is one of the main differences. A gun is a fast killer. With a gun, you can do more dammage, before someone stops you.
The argument about aloving guns, because knives kills too, is however strange in my eyes. Cho wouldn't be able to kill that many people with a knife. That is one of the main differences. A gun is a fast killer. With a gun, you can do more dammage, before someone stops you.
once again, find a way to eliminate official AND personal weapons and i'm all for it. until then, i reserve the right to put a bullet between the king's eyes if he continues to be so greedy. i reserve the right to kill a corrupt cop. i reserve the right to shoot an intruder into my personal home.Immanuel wrote:But there is something very wrong with criminals, drug addicts, mentally ill, trigger happy, or just "too easy to scare" people having guns. And there more guns around, the easyer it will be for anybody to get a hold of one. With only few guns around, it is actually pretty hard to get them. Also that would include planning to get (and possibly wear) an illegal gun. This requires time and effort, and this requirement makes "spontaneus killing" (ie in selfdefense, cause the oponent might have a gun) much less likely.garyb wrote:there's nothing wrong with good, upstanding citizens owning weapons. criminals will always find a way to be armed, if arms exist.
But ... I am just a Northern European. My country does not have the same history of guns. So maybe, what I believe in is just not applicable on US soil. Gary, you say, that it is your human right to cary a gun. I say, that it is my human right to live in a country where it is not a human right to cary a gun. Again, history might make the difference. I would however seriously not feel safe to visit a country, where people find it nessesary to cary guns to protect them selves - no matter for what reason they think so.
do you think it's the gun keeping you from being murdered? do you think that eliminating guns will make people kind? i think some give up all their ability to be free men for the promise of security. all that breeds is dependance of the king and state and tyrrany, which to me is unnacceptable even if the tyranny is soft and comfortable. i like being an adult and a man in charge of my own destiny and not a slave of the state...
Immanuel, cho killed all those peole because the police let him to his own devices for OVER TWO HOURS and made no attempt to stop him even though they knew what was happening. cho killed all those people because, for some reason, no one jumped him. cho killed alll those people because for some reason he was able to go one by one and fire multiple shots into each victim execution style. normally, a 9mm will not kill immediately. the gun he used was very low power. arms experts haven't been able to explain how it was even possible to have such a high kill rate with that gun. SOMETHING ELSE IS UP THERE, THE OFFICIAL STORY IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!
You are right ... and ... because he was able to get a gun.garyb wrote:Immanuel, cho killed all those peole because the police let him to his own devices for OVER TWO HOURS and made no attempt to stop him even though they knew what was happening. cho killed all those people because, for some reason, no one jumped him.
I can not commend on this. I would believe that wether a gun kills intantly has a lot to do with where you shoot your victim. But I don't know about this stuff. So I am not qualified to do anything but guess work. If you source is correct, and one variable needs to be changed, then maybe the problem was, that Cho wasn't only able to get a gun. He was able to get a big gun ...cho killed alll those people because for some reason he was able to go one by one and fire multiple shots into each victim execution style. normally, a 9mm will not kill immediately. the gun he used was very low power. arms experts haven't been able to explain how it was even possible to have such a high kill rate with that gun. SOMETHING ELSE IS UP THERE, THE OFFICIAL STORY IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!
Anyway, it is night time here. I will go to bed now.
Be well
Immanuel
fine,
ignorance is bliss.
my main point is that there's nothing wrong with having a gun, in or of itself.
immanuel, if you feel safer without it, i respect that. i don't want everybody going out and getting a gun. i'm not saying i have/want/need a gun.
there's nothing wrong with getting/having/needing one either.
people who have them are not nesessarily bad people.
safety doesn't come from eliminating them either.
sorry for spamming.
btw- petal, just saying "conspiracy theory" is kinda knee-jerk,if you know what i mean. it's a fact that the officil story doesn't hold water, look at the video clip i posted. the guy there is a criminologist with the university of florida who said that he originally thought there was a shotgun or a military assualt rifle involved. he said the type guns used were for shooting at tin cans, and that it's almost inconceivable that a trained killer could get a 60% kill rate out of those guns, let alone some demented kid. this is just facts about the weapons that we're told were involved. the official story is not always correct or complete. that's my point in my post. i go by logic, sense and what is in the public record in saying what i do. it's important to think things out for yourself, right? please don't hate me because you disagree with me. someday we may get some time, i might show you some things that might change your opinions on some things in this world. we all live and learn, and i used to agree with most of the posters that disagree with me on many of these controversial topics. your mind might change or not, i still respect you even if you think i'm a crazy twit.
ignorance is bliss.
my main point is that there's nothing wrong with having a gun, in or of itself.
immanuel, if you feel safer without it, i respect that.
i don't want everybody going out and getting a gun. i'm not saying i have/want/need a gun. there's nothing wrong with getting/having/needing one either.
people who have them are not nesessarily bad people.
safety doesn't come from eliminating them either.
sorry for spamming.
btw- petal, just saying "conspiracy theory" is kinda knee-jerk,if you know what i mean. it's a fact that the officil story doesn't hold water, look at the video clip i posted. the guy there is a criminologist with the university of florida who said that he originally thought there was a shotgun or a military assualt rifle involved. he said the type guns used were for shooting at tin cans, and that it's almost inconceivable that a trained killer could get a 60% kill rate out of those guns, let alone some demented kid. this is just facts about the weapons that we're told were involved. the official story is not always correct or complete. that's my point in my post. i go by logic, sense and what is in the public record in saying what i do. it's important to think things out for yourself, right? please don't hate me because you disagree with me. someday we may get some time, i might show you some things that might change your opinions on some things in this world. we all live and learn, and i used to agree with most of the posters that disagree with me on many of these controversial topics. your mind might change or not, i still respect you even if you think i'm a crazy twit.
Oh I don't hate you Gary I respect you and know from experience that you are a valuable member of our community here.
I have before, with great interest, read your alternative opinions on controversial topics and you have also in earlier posts here on planetZ spoken about "the king" and "truths" hidden from the public.
I don't claim to hold the thruth, but the topics you sometimes chime in on and the views you share with us, are very far from my own on many occations, actually so far that I find it very hard to believe them, which is where the "conspiricy theory"-remark came from, since I saw the same "kind" of arguments comming from you in this thread.
You are a hard man to discuss with, because so many differnt wild views and angles are thrown on the table, that it, from my view, looks like a big mess that doesn't make sense at all - I'm sorry to say it, but there you have it. It's not hatred, frustration maybe
But please continue sharing your ideas and views on things, I enjoy reading it, all though I think you are far out there man
I'm just trying to understand why you guys over there cling to your guns as you do, and from where I'm standing it's a sad story, that involves us all because of the impact american cultures and politics has on the rest of the world.
I respect you and know from experience that you are a valuable member of our community here.I have before, with great interest, read your alternative opinions on controversial topics and you have also in earlier posts here on planetZ spoken about "the king" and "truths" hidden from the public.
I don't claim to hold the thruth, but the topics you sometimes chime in on and the views you share with us, are very far from my own on many occations, actually so far that I find it very hard to believe them, which is where the "conspiricy theory"-remark came from, since I saw the same "kind" of arguments comming from you in this thread.
You are a hard man to discuss with, because so many differnt wild views and angles are thrown on the table, that it, from my view, looks like a big mess that doesn't make sense at all - I'm sorry to say it, but there you have it. It's not hatred, frustration maybe
But please continue sharing your ideas and views on things, I enjoy reading it, all though I think you are far out there man
I'm just trying to understand why you guys over there cling to your guns as you do, and from where I'm standing it's a sad story, that involves us all because of the impact american cultures and politics has on the rest of the world.
i see where you're coming from, but i'm not the extremist i seem to be. i really very conservative. yes, i do see things from many different angles and i do see certain connections that might not be obvious at first, but i also have certain documents in my possesion(just luckily), that back up my assertations(can't really show you on the internet).
as to american culture, it has it's good and bad side, just like the european culture it's just a colonial part of....
one thing i'll give you, the american leadership is overtly foul in a way that no european monarch or plutocrat would ever show in public.....
as to american culture, it has it's good and bad side, just like the european culture it's just a colonial part of....
one thing i'll give you, the american leadership is overtly foul in a way that no european monarch or plutocrat would ever show in public.....
Just imagine this scenario Petal.
When I was five years old, we practiced nuclear bomb drills @ school. My oldest brother was killed in Vietnam that year.
Then " a lone gunman " takes out JFK when I was 7.
Then the best hopes in uniting a peaceful racial solution was gunned down by another " lone gunman ". The largest cities in the USA were on fire, and thousands were killed.
RFK was about to become President when I was young, and there again is the " lone gunman ".
What about brotha' man Malcolm X ? What about Cleophus Robinson ?
Do you see a pattern emerging?
Everytime someone wants to give me a statistic on gun control I gotta laugh. I AM MY OWN GUN CONTROL !!
Sure, they can take my guns, but only after they pry it from my cold dead hands !!
@ Any rate I still managed to learn to play the piano while dodging spears and bullets, and can hit a silver dollar @ 50 yards w/ my Remington 700.
Could You Imagine Growing Up In America. I wish I could raise my son in a peaceful world really, but that fantasy only exists as a child. As the world becomes more populated I'm sorry to say that this will play out the same way it has for hundreds of years.
I Hope That Helps My Brothers Over There Understand Why Even The Pianists Over Here Are Potentially Dangerous.
When I was five years old, we practiced nuclear bomb drills @ school. My oldest brother was killed in Vietnam that year.
Then " a lone gunman " takes out JFK when I was 7.
Then the best hopes in uniting a peaceful racial solution was gunned down by another " lone gunman ". The largest cities in the USA were on fire, and thousands were killed.
RFK was about to become President when I was young, and there again is the " lone gunman ".
What about brotha' man Malcolm X ? What about Cleophus Robinson ?
Do you see a pattern emerging?
Everytime someone wants to give me a statistic on gun control I gotta laugh. I AM MY OWN GUN CONTROL !!
Sure, they can take my guns, but only after they pry it from my cold dead hands !!
@ Any rate I still managed to learn to play the piano while dodging spears and bullets, and can hit a silver dollar @ 50 yards w/ my Remington 700.
Could You Imagine Growing Up In America. I wish I could raise my son in a peaceful world really, but that fantasy only exists as a child. As the world becomes more populated I'm sorry to say that this will play out the same way it has for hundreds of years.
I Hope That Helps My Brothers Over There Understand Why Even The Pianists Over Here Are Potentially Dangerous.
I'm sorry to hear about your brother.
The pattern that is clear to me is that a lot of guns kill's a lot of your good people.
Then I sense a conspiricy theory - is that the pattern I'm supposed to see? please elaborate.
It seems to me that you guys suspects some part of your government/state to be behind some big conspiricy, and that guns is the solution to that problem.
The pattern that is clear to me is that a lot of guns kill's a lot of your good people.
Then I sense a conspiricy theory - is that the pattern I'm supposed to see? please elaborate.
It seems to me that you guys suspects some part of your government/state to be behind some big conspiricy, and that guns is the solution to that problem.
my government is full of people from your EU government. america IS a british colony, part of "the godfather of europe's" family...the worst handgun made is made in belgium by the way, it's called a P90, it's made for NATO and it's for house to house urban slaughter.
even though america was just a colony, the people got the idea that they didn't want an imperium running thier lives. they revolted and were partially successful in gaining a small amount of liberty. after that, people who wanted to be free of the imperial forces of the world came here, specifically to be free of having their lives micro-managed by the state. even though our state has become an imperial force itself, many still hold to the principle of stringing up bluebloods who wish to own humanity for thier personal property.
even though america was just a colony, the people got the idea that they didn't want an imperium running thier lives. they revolted and were partially successful in gaining a small amount of liberty. after that, people who wanted to be free of the imperial forces of the world came here, specifically to be free of having their lives micro-managed by the state. even though our state has become an imperial force itself, many still hold to the principle of stringing up bluebloods who wish to own humanity for thier personal property.
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BingoTheClowno
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Regarding the suggestion that this could be Manchurian Candidate scenario, I don't know and with the information that is available I can't say this could be so. But I also find intriguing the speed (less than 3 minutes I understood) and efficacy (each victim was shot at least 3 times) with which the crime was executed (the door were locked from the outside in advance I also heard).
However, I think that in order to become a manchurian candidate one has to go through more steps beside playing violent games. If you really want to know what it takes to make people kill themselves and their own children see the story of Peoples Temple and of Jim jones
The man that made 900 people commit suicides and kill their children:
You see it takes years and careful conditioning to push a human to perform acts that violate his internal most basic instincts.
However, I think that in order to become a manchurian candidate one has to go through more steps beside playing violent games. If you really want to know what it takes to make people kill themselves and their own children see the story of Peoples Temple and of Jim jones
The man that made 900 people commit suicides and kill their children:
You see it takes years and careful conditioning to push a human to perform acts that violate his internal most basic instincts.
Governments can just suck my ass, all of them are the same. In Russia and China they duped the masses into believing that communism was for the good of the people, even though the same " working man " who ruled, lived in luxury, but Josef Stalin, and all of his comrades after him pointed at the USA as the reason for their suffering. Fidel Castro, Kim Jong II, and all of the others like them know what's best for their people right,......you suppose to say yes, as the other option no, usually was followed by some form of " re education ".
Our government uses them to keep up similar hatred and paranoia amongst our citizens. I always thought that the persons we voted for would represent us, but that never happens either. So in the midst of all of this bull shit happens to be a nation where it is our God given right to defend ourselves from enemies foriegn, or domestic. So when the world is still feeding us lies on how good it's becoming, we keep our guns clean just in case.
I fear the future as the world becomes more populated, I can't see 8 billion people in agreement on anything. Just read this thread for proof. Our only commonality is our beloved families and platform, both of which I am willing to die for.
Sure,....You Can Have My Scope Cards, After You Pry Them From My Cold Dead Hands !!!!
Our government uses them to keep up similar hatred and paranoia amongst our citizens. I always thought that the persons we voted for would represent us, but that never happens either. So in the midst of all of this bull shit happens to be a nation where it is our God given right to defend ourselves from enemies foriegn, or domestic. So when the world is still feeding us lies on how good it's becoming, we keep our guns clean just in case.
I fear the future as the world becomes more populated, I can't see 8 billion people in agreement on anything. Just read this thread for proof. Our only commonality is our beloved families and platform, both of which I am willing to die for.
Sure,....You Can Have My Scope Cards, After You Pry Them From My Cold Dead Hands !!!!
I didn't mean to start a thread about gun control but it seems conservatives (not only Gary) are worried now about the popular mood. Most gun owners are rural people. City people are more numerous yet rural people seem to have more power than they deserve. We have a Texan in the White House, and of course he is pro-guns. The wild west was won by killing native americans with guns. The vice president nearly shot a man to death. Guns are very dangerous and it is amazing they are legal. You are not seriously thinking you are going to overthrow the government are you Gary? It's not worth it, I would rather move to Canada. I hear BC is lovely.
you're wrong. bush is no texan(he's a new englander) and he's anti gun, contrary to what some believe.
the veeps actions were most definitely criminal. are you surprised? he's one that would have a gun regardless of the law(he didn't follow the law in the shooting incident and was obstructive towards the investigation, this is public record). he's a good example of who you need protection from. as i said, this gun is only available to police and soldiers. it was designed in concert with NATO for killing city dwellers. it's called the FN P90 and it won't be owned by civilians. it is a weapon that is openly hostile towards YOU and is coming to a special forces unit in black uniform with no markings(except maybe a death's head?) near you: http://remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/data/concept.htm this gun is the darling weapon of stargate sg-1, a show(i am entertained by) which is funded by the united states airforce space command.....
i wouldn't overthrow the government, but i might defend theconstitutional one. i'm sure BC is lovely, but i prefer my home at the moment. the only reason for me to move would be better work.
all i am saying is that if i can't be trusted with a gun, then neither can the police or soldiers, they're no more responsible than i. disarm them and i'm happy to disarm as well. you really should be much more worried about a police state than whether or not your neighbors have a gun. if they(your neighbors) really wish to kill you, they can, gun or not, ebay weapon or not.
the veeps actions were most definitely criminal. are you surprised? he's one that would have a gun regardless of the law(he didn't follow the law in the shooting incident and was obstructive towards the investigation, this is public record). he's a good example of who you need protection from. as i said, this gun is only available to police and soldiers. it was designed in concert with NATO for killing city dwellers. it's called the FN P90 and it won't be owned by civilians. it is a weapon that is openly hostile towards YOU and is coming to a special forces unit in black uniform with no markings(except maybe a death's head?) near you: http://remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/data/concept.htm this gun is the darling weapon of stargate sg-1, a show(i am entertained by) which is funded by the united states airforce space command.....
i wouldn't overthrow the government, but i might defend theconstitutional one. i'm sure BC is lovely, but i prefer my home at the moment. the only reason for me to move would be better work.
all i am saying is that if i can't be trusted with a gun, then neither can the police or soldiers, they're no more responsible than i. disarm them and i'm happy to disarm as well. you really should be much more worried about a police state than whether or not your neighbors have a gun. if they(your neighbors) really wish to kill you, they can, gun or not, ebay weapon or not.
There are a variety of topics all mashed into this conversation, and I'm kind of surprised I care to speak up at all.
First, a fact: the potential confusion over what the US Constitution states in regards to a 'well organized militia' is understandable, since there is debate over what a militia actually is. Some believe that it's the citizenry itself (themselves?), some believe it's what would now call our National Guard (organized state by state) and still others believe that it's a separate entity to goverment altogether and stands as another check & balance. I remember when those guys tried to recruit me, calling themselves the real State organize Militia. In my experience they're prone to putting a 'lien' on anything they can when someone is rude to them (i claim a lien on your wall!) and then they constantly decry the need to bring back the common court system.... this says not much about their drinking and their politics but I'll let you read between the lines.
Even when I have been amidst gang violence I generally didn't feel great about having a gun. However I do recall that my friends in HIgh School started coming by the weapons around age 14 on up, not a single one was legal and contrary to what Bowling for Columbine and a lot of other media would have had me believe, I'm pretty sure most of the ones they were getting came up through Mexico (rather that being 'stolen' and sold or 'borrowed' from daddy). So getting rid of weapons in the citizenry wouldn't have stopped the KIDS I knew from getting guns. Mind you I went to one of the 2 top funded schools in San Antonio (late 80's / early 90's) so these weren't inner city thugs either. I still was against having a gun and managed to survive.
However after some of our recent national disasters, especially Katrina, I've talked firsthand to people who had to barricade themselves inside empty hotels or houses in large groups and only go out in small numbers carrying weapons, or they would suffer from random stupid acts of voilence that ended in death quite frequently. Unfortunately that's a case where I think I really would have wanted a gun, and that goes in agreement with Jimmy's statements about previous roits etc.
Europe has been more stable for the last 60-70 years than I think its previous history, so I can understand how the general populace can feel somewhat distanced by such things. One thing to be aware of is that in the US, to simply purchase a firearm there is a background check and a waiting period, the degree of both is proportional to the type of firearm you're purchasing. And if you wish to carry a concealed weapon in States that allow it, this requires a lot of additional paperwork and at least basic training plus a responsible (hopefully) teacher's signature that you are not an emotional wreck and can hold the thing right way up.
There's some of my thoughts & opinions in no particularly well ordered, er, order.
First, a fact: the potential confusion over what the US Constitution states in regards to a 'well organized militia' is understandable, since there is debate over what a militia actually is. Some believe that it's the citizenry itself (themselves?), some believe it's what would now call our National Guard (organized state by state) and still others believe that it's a separate entity to goverment altogether and stands as another check & balance. I remember when those guys tried to recruit me, calling themselves the real State organize Militia. In my experience they're prone to putting a 'lien' on anything they can when someone is rude to them (i claim a lien on your wall!) and then they constantly decry the need to bring back the common court system.... this says not much about their drinking and their politics but I'll let you read between the lines.
Even when I have been amidst gang violence I generally didn't feel great about having a gun. However I do recall that my friends in HIgh School started coming by the weapons around age 14 on up, not a single one was legal and contrary to what Bowling for Columbine and a lot of other media would have had me believe, I'm pretty sure most of the ones they were getting came up through Mexico (rather that being 'stolen' and sold or 'borrowed' from daddy). So getting rid of weapons in the citizenry wouldn't have stopped the KIDS I knew from getting guns. Mind you I went to one of the 2 top funded schools in San Antonio (late 80's / early 90's) so these weren't inner city thugs either. I still was against having a gun and managed to survive.
However after some of our recent national disasters, especially Katrina, I've talked firsthand to people who had to barricade themselves inside empty hotels or houses in large groups and only go out in small numbers carrying weapons, or they would suffer from random stupid acts of voilence that ended in death quite frequently. Unfortunately that's a case where I think I really would have wanted a gun, and that goes in agreement with Jimmy's statements about previous roits etc.
Europe has been more stable for the last 60-70 years than I think its previous history, so I can understand how the general populace can feel somewhat distanced by such things. One thing to be aware of is that in the US, to simply purchase a firearm there is a background check and a waiting period, the degree of both is proportional to the type of firearm you're purchasing. And if you wish to carry a concealed weapon in States that allow it, this requires a lot of additional paperwork and at least basic training plus a responsible (hopefully) teacher's signature that you are not an emotional wreck and can hold the thing right way up.
There's some of my thoughts & opinions in no particularly well ordered, er, order.
well said Valis, except that regardless of what some say about the line in the constitution:
1. a militia is the armed citizenry. always has been, always will be. it is NON-professional by definition.
2. "well regulated" in military parlance means "accurate and well adjusted". so a well regulated militia means, "citizens with accurate and good quality arms".
3. the line is not about a militia at all. the secion about "a well regulated militia" is a prepositional phrase. the subject is "the right of citizens to bear arms". the verb is "shall not" what "shall not" happen to the "citizen's rights" is infringement by the government. the reason given by the constitutional framers? the government can't be trusted, because the corrupt are drawn to power and power tends to corrupt.
once again, i'm not saying i want/have a gun, but i am not relinquishing my right to want/have/get one either.
1. a militia is the armed citizenry. always has been, always will be. it is NON-professional by definition.
2. "well regulated" in military parlance means "accurate and well adjusted". so a well regulated militia means, "citizens with accurate and good quality arms".
3. the line is not about a militia at all. the secion about "a well regulated militia" is a prepositional phrase. the subject is "the right of citizens to bear arms". the verb is "shall not" what "shall not" happen to the "citizen's rights" is infringement by the government. the reason given by the constitutional framers? the government can't be trusted, because the corrupt are drawn to power and power tends to corrupt.
once again, i'm not saying i want/have a gun, but i am not relinquishing my right to want/have/get one either.
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Mr Arkadin
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