Connecting two PCs to another PC via ADAT/SPDIF/Z-Link...

[hesnotthemessiah]

Excuse me for being rather brief here, I logged in and then spent over an hour typing up a post which I constantly copied (although I didn't paste it to a word document ). Then, just before hitting, the submit key, for some stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid reason, I decided to copy the text I had just entered into the "Subject box". Upon hitting the submit key, I was requested to relogin, to which I was then directed to a nice blank post ready for me to type my life story again!!!! I know, I should have copied and PASTED to a word document to make sure I didn't lose my epic masterpiece, but why do I have to lose what I have typed up just because I have been logged in for a rather long time!!! Anyway, rant over. I will keep it brief.

I want to connect two PCs which each have a combination of Frontier Design Dakota and Montana cards, to a PC which has two Scope Professional Z-Link cards. I would like to use the cards' ADAT and S/PDIF connections. The PC with the two Scope Professional Z-Link cards runs Cubase and the Scope routing window with the STM4896. The other 2 PCs run EnergyXT and operate like sound modules but running VST plugins. I would like to mix all the outs from these two PCs into the STM4896 along with additional inputs from the ASIO source module in the Scope routing window. Plus I would like to be able to use the Scope Professional Z-Link cards outputs as fx sends into the other 2 computers.

What would be the best way to do this? My main concerns are digital sync problems and running out of PCI bandwidth. Would using the Z-Link options with the A16Ultra help with reducing PCI bandwidth problems? The combination of Dakota/Montana cards on my other 2 PCs means I can use their ADAT 9-pin sync inputs/outputs if I were to purchase a SyncPlate for my Scope Professional Z-Link cards. Would this be any help?

Thanks for your time.

My head hurts.

[mike.kennedy]

Hi Brian,

I have a similar set-up in that it includes both Scope and Dakota/Montana. It works fine connected via ADAT. Just set the Scope to be the timing master and the Dakota(s) to slave using the appropriate ADAT port as timing reference. You can do this via one of the tabs on the Dakota tray. You shouldn't need the ADAT 9-pin timecode as the ADAT fibre connection provides timing for digital audio. Good info available here: http://www.frontierdesign.com/Support/Downloads/Dakota

You probably also need to make midi connections between the "master" sequencer (cubase?) and the VST hosts.

I don't see any advantage in pushing your i/o via the A16 ultra.

I hope this helps,

Mike

[valis]

Also I think the 9 pin ADAT connection is for transport control rather than samplerate sync isn't it? Bnc is what I use on the breakout adaptor, even though my RME has a 9-pin as well.

♠

[Immanuel]

Plus I would like to be able to use the Scope Professional Z-Link cards outputs as fx sends into the other 2 computers.

Never connect the Z-link plug to anything else than an A16ultra or a 2496 box by Creamware. It will die.

[mike.kennedy]

Valis: yes, I think you're right - handy if you need to sync transport with "real" Alesis ADAT kit (BRC etc), but maybe not so good for much else...

[kylie]

Excuse me for being rather brief here, I logged in and then spent over an hour typing up a post which I constantly copied (although I didn't paste it to a word document ). Then, just before hitting, the submit key, for some stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid reason, I decided to copy the text I had just entered into the "Subject box". Upon hitting the submit key, I was requested to relogin, to which I was then directed to a nice blank post ready for me to type my life story again!!!!

I had that problem not only once. did you enter your text into the message body area? if so, you can, when getting your (again) empty message body, hit your browser back button twice (once for seeing the login window again, and once again for being where you were before: typing your message). worked several times over here.

I don't know about the capabilities of the montana/dakota cards. what kind of i/o do they provide? you mentioned adat, which you want to use to connected them with the scope cards. what would you use the a16u for? or better, why do you need so many channels? do the dakota/montana have enough analog input capacity?

-greetings, markus-

[hesnotthemessiah]

Thanks for the response so far. I have been back from work for a couple of hours (I work nights) and I am pretty knackered, so please excuse my ramblings.............

I have one main sequencing PC running Cubase VST5 (soon to be upgraded, probably, to Cubase 4). This has 2xCreamware Scope Professional Z-Link cards plus a couple of other UAD/Powercore DSP cards. I will then have two other PCs both running EnergyXT and using Dakota/Montana cards. These two PCs will host plugins and be used much like sound modules with the midi outs from my 2 Creamware cards being used to control each of these 2 PCs (one midi out from one Creamware card into one PC, the other midi out from the other Creamware card into the other PC). The Dakota/Montana cards give a total of 32 ADAT + 2 SPDIF digital outs and 32 ADAT + 2 SPDIF digital inputs per PC. They have no analogue connections. I would like to be able to connect as many digital outs from the Dakota/Montana cards to the Creamware cards as possible plus also have some ADAT outs from the Creamware cards connected to the Dakota/Montana cards as FX sends.

With only using the ADAT sources in Scope using my 2xCreamware Scope Professional Z-Link cards, I would have 16 inputs. With one A16Ultra and then using 2 Z-links sources in Scope, I would have an additional 16 inputs. I could get two A16 Ultras for a total of 32 Z-Link and 16 ADAT sources in Scope.
Could my main sequencing PC handle that much PCI bandwidth being used by all those audio in/outs and ASIO Source/Destination modules on my Creamware cards (plus I still want to use a combination of UAD and Powercore cards aswell). I thought possibly using the Z-Link connectors from my Scope cards into an a16Ultra might help reduce PCI bandwidth compared to using the ADAT connectors?

For the following explanation, PC1 is the main sequencing PC running Cubase VST5 and the 2xCreamware Scope Professional Z-Link cards. PCs 2 and 3 host the plugins running EnergyXT and using Dakota/Montana cards.

a)Set Scope on PC1 as master.
Scope ADAT outs 1/2 and 3/4 on PC1 go to Dakota/Montana cards ADAT ins on PC2. Scope ADAT outs 5/6 and 7/8 on PC1 go to Dakota/Montana cards ADAT ins on PC3. These are used as fx sends.

b)Dakota/Montana cards on PC2 and PC3 each synced to one of their used ADAT ins.

c)Dakota/Montana cards on PC2 and PC3 ADAT outs sent to Scope ADAT ins on PC1.

Can Scope be set to master but still recieve the ADAT signals from the Dakota/Montana cards on PC2 and PC3 with no problem because the Dakota/Montana cards are synced to Scope?

I hope that all made sense. This is so hard (and not toooo exciting, to explain). What I can't really get my head round is this "looping" of the ADAT signal because of the audio going from the Dakota/Montana cards into the Creamware cards and then back out from the Creamware cards back into the Dakota/Montana cards (because of my wanting to use fx sends).

My head reeeaaaaly hurts. Ah! Bed! Here I come ...................................

[mike.kennedy]

Your Scope cards should receive ADAT signals OK from the Dakotas - the Scope system is the timing master - the Dakotas slaves for both input and output. So what you have described should work fine!

[kylie]

The Dakota/Montana cards give a total of 32 ADAT + 2 SPDIF digital outs and 32 ADAT + 2 SPDIF digital inputs per PC. They have no analogue connections. I would like to be able to connect as many digital outs from the Dakota/Montana cards to the Creamware cards as possible plus also have some ADAT outs from the Creamware cards connected to the Dakota/Montana cards as FX sends.

I see... you're just limited in adat channels...

With only using the ADAT sources in Scope using my 2xCreamware Scope Professional Z-Link cards, I would have 16 inputs. With one A16Ultra and then using 2 Z-links sources in Scope, I would have an additional 16 inputs. I could get two A16 Ultras for a total of 32 Z-Link and 16 ADAT sources in Scope.

afaik there is a mode you can use the a16u with that enables the unit as adat <-> zlink converter (as mentioned in the manual).
you could send 16 channels adat per a16u to the dakota, and additional 8 channels via the additional adat connector on the scope board.

dunno if the system can handle that amount of i/o properly.

I thought possibly using the Z-Link connectors from my Scope cards into an a16Ultra might help reduce PCI bandwidth compared to using the ADAT connectors?

I doubt that the type of input on the same card has any influence on the pci performance.

as for syncing... there are others here to answer that better than me.

-greetings, markus-

[hesnotthemessiah]

afaik there is a mode you can use the a16u with that enables the unit as adat <-> zlink converter (as mentioned in the manual).
you could send 16 channels adat per a16u to the dakota, and additional 8 channels via the additional adat connector on the scope board.

dunno if the system can handle that amount of i/o properly.

Cheers Markus. Yep. That's what I was looklng to do. This would give me a total of:-

16 ADAT outs from my two PCs going directly into the two Scope boards' 16 ADAT inputs.

Plus 16 ADAT outs from my two PCs also going into one A16U. Then from this A16U's two Z-Link outs into any of the two Scope Boards four available Z-Link inputs.

So 32 digital inputs into my PC with the Scope boards from my two other PCs with the Dakota/Montana cards in them. The Scope boards will provide the master sync. The Scope boards will have at least one fx send going to each PC's Dakota/Montana cards to which the Dakota/Montana cards will sync.

Could anyone confirm whether or not this system would work? Could I sync my cards this way and do you think my PC could handle this much PCI activity? I guess a lot would have to do with various other factors such as the motherboard's PCI bandwidth and other PCI/USB activity. I use an Asus P4S800 which has a total of 5PCI slots using 2 Scope Pro Z-Links, 2 TC Powercore, 1 UAD. I have all USB ports inactive. No Firewire. I would be using some ASIO Source module inputs coming from Cubase. Plus I would have to use at least two ADAT outs (which I could use as fx sends) to the two other PCs for those 2 PCs to use as sync source.

I really do feel like I making this out to be more complicated than it really is! The trouble is I can test anything out until my two eBay purchased PCs, which I will put my Dakota/Montana cards into, arrive. Which should be any day now. I just need to order an A16Ultra.

Any further advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks for your time!

[synthetic]

Will probably work but you can't share DSP power just for exchange audio/midi.

I run (in same computer):
- 3pcs of Creamware Pulsar-2
- EMU 1820M
- TC Powercore MK-II

CW and EMU is connected by ADAT and ASIO. Is hard to config XTC to work but finally
found a workaround to get it to work.