how good are the A 16 converter against apogee converter?

nacho · Post by **nacho** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:41 pm

hi i want to know if i can achieve the same results with the creamware a16

Post by **garyb** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:09 pm

hte apogee is slightly more transparent and has better signal to noise ratio, but the A16 compares very favorably. if the budget was limited, i'd rather have the A16 and a better mic pre than the apogee and a more mediocre mic pre. the A16 won't be the reason you don't get a grammy......

Herr Voigt · Post by **Herr Voigt** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:22 pm

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:15 pm

You are never going to get the detail and imaging of Apogees with cheaper converters... I have both and the difference is very noticeable. I'm not sure how useful this is in a mix, I just like to mix the best quality signals I possibly can. Despite all this geeky purism, the A16 is incredible for the money, in my opinion they are pretty equal with RME which cost quite a bit more.

I totally agree with Gary regarding mic pre's... however not everyone needs to record mics, some people just need to record external synths/samplers and for this a good A/D is really worth it if you value the sound of those synths/samplers. It can be nice to preamp synths sometimes too though..

digitalaudiosoft · Post by **digitalaudiosoft** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:17 am

nacho wrote:hi i want to know if i can achieve the same results with the creamware a16

(forget digitalaudiosoft's develloper please,i'm talking as sound engineer and not as dev)

hi nacho,

of course not

apogee are references in my job and with a bigben they are better than all the others.
i prefer them to digidesign hd (like lots of sound engineer).but,money is money...about 6000 dollars for both...
they are lots of colours even on professional converter,i have compared 3 of them (eyes closed of course ) with ssl4000e ,the audio source was a drummer ,and after a good female singer alone with a u67 neuman (very good for test) , my 888 with a rosetta and a hd192,my result was : 1 apogee,2 : 888 and third hd192.( but it was at 48khz ) never try a hd192 at 192khz,but i'm sure that's better ...
apogee sound's more analog,hi freq are very nice,low freq are more hot,hd192 is more agressive and maybe it was mine,but 888 is good...
to make a test,you have to use the protools or your soft as a recorder,you have to monitor the source before converter and not after of course.and only after having recorded all the 3 different audio source,with eyes closed,choose the tracks you prefer...(you have to be 2 people to make a test with eyes closed)

anyway,as garyb and darkrezin say and they are right ,a good system with a bad preamp source is not good...
so,to run with a creamware,i would choose this good a16 and a good preamp.for 4000 dollars,you can have the a16 and this good preamp...

for me, apogee are made to run with big hardware,like ssl,neve and good mics,good monitor...a "what i call" a true recording studio...not a home studio.and you can understand that 10 000 dollars for converters is not expensive when you have pay 40 000 dollars for only 2 monitor,and 150 000 for a console...

eric

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:52 am

Naturally someone who sells Creamware gear would want to think it is almost as good as the highest end gear. I've been wanting an Apogee mini. If they come down another notch, I'll get one eventually. I should probably look on ebay. I agree that most people are not using quality preamps and should.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:05 am

If that's a dig at garyb, I beg to differ - although it's pretty obvious that gary sells CW gear, I find his advice pretty honest and truthful. I know of hit records that were recorded on MOTU gear, now that really IS a shit converter.

katano · Post by **katano** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:19 am

Eric,

what preamp would you recommend in the price range you said (as a good match to the a16u)?
and what is your opinion on the tfpro 16x preamp and tfpro gear in general?

cheers
Roman

digitalaudiosoft · Post by **digitalaudiosoft** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:23 am

roman,

my big problem to answer you is that i don't know tfpro

and another and biggest one ,is that i use a ssl4000e...so,what a ssl's fan can recomand ?
http://www.playback.fr/ssl-e_signature_ ... -9810.html

bye

eric

katano · Post by **katano** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:25 am

ok, fair enough

but how do you record drums??

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:29 am

tfpro gear is pretty good in my experience. Ted Fletcher was the guy who made the original Joe Meek SC2 (only the original!)

digitalaudiosoft · Post by **digitalaudiosoft** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:35 am

katano wrote:ok, fair enough

but how do you record drums??

i edited my answer because i have not understood you well roman,the begining of the topic was not about recording a drum on a16 or apogee.(i answer you on next post)

eric

katano · Post by **katano** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:42 am

i meant how would you record drums without an SSL console?

that ssl signature channel is "only" a channel strip, i'm looking for something that could feed an A16U with 16 channels at one time, i.e. for recording drums...

cheers
roman

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:50 am

katano - I should add that I've never tried the tfpro 16x preamp. I have used his compressors though, and they fucking rule!

I get the feeling it is going to sound a lot better than using the preamps on a 16 channel mixer like a crappy Mackie Onyx or whatever.

digitalaudiosoft · Post by **digitalaudiosoft** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:00 am

when i have to record a drum ,i go to the studio...maybe tfpro is very good, anyway i don't know 16 ad conv with 16 good mic preamp able to take a drum without clipping quickly...
of course,if you use "cheap" mic like sm57,you can't understand what i refer.but,when i record drums,i use only statics mics,like c414,km84,u 87 and u47 the only dynamic i use is for bassdrum and it's a d112 or re20.
i sometimes use sm57 ! don't flame me again for this sentence please !
but,when you use statics,even a ssl4000e clip faster than with dynamics mic ! new 9000 is very better...that's life !
but you can choose a 8 mic preamp ssl in rack.

for drum i need : 1 bassdrum , 2 for snare , 1 for hihat,1 on each tom , 2 or 3 for cymb and 2 for amb...

eric

Post by **garyb** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:47 pm

if you want a great micpre with multiple channels and have space, recording boards from the 80's can be had for under $1000 that used to cost $20,000. they have micpres and direct outs.

if you want something really great, how about the millenia 8 channel?
http://www.soundpure.com/showProduct.do?id=257

katano · Post by **katano** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:41 am

no prob eric, i use neumann km184 or shure ksm137 for overheads and hihat, sennheiser md441 for toms, and indeed sometimes the sm57 for snare (top). for bassdrum i use a shure beta 91 and/or a sennheiser 602 II... i'd like to have a re20, though

garyb, this preamp is out of my price range at the moment, but thanks anyway

cheers
roman

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:04 pm

You should record each drum separately using a Grace Design 101.

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how good are the A 16 converter against apogee converter?

how good are the A 16 converter against apogee converter?

Re: how good are the A 16 converter against apogee converter