Pedal Steel Using Ribbon Controller Sucsess !!!!!#%^&%&a

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:11 am

I have always wanted to do this instrument, but let's face it, if you don't get it right, you will go over like a turd in a punchbowl. Here is my method, which is still shaky due to my lack of coordination.

Using 2 x DAW's, have the same American Zither sample loaded up. Use a footpedal for sustaining one of the 2 x controllers ( KS88's ). And 1 x expression pedal for pitch bends up / down. Set the pedal so you have -1, center, and +1. That's your basic whole step slide. The breath controller does volume swells globally ( both 88's ). It's a trip as i feel like I'm playing an accordian, w/ bass pedals, and a harmonica. But I see light @ the end of the tunnel. This is really an incredible controller.

I was just using it to do Steve Howe's slide w/ the echo plex from the tune " And You And I ', when this idea struck. Not only will I do Yes, but I plan on nailing the pedal steel intro from the song " Teach Your Children Well ", by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young.

So It Shall Be Written, So It Shall Be Done.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:56 am

My trick for pedl steel is to work on 3 different MIDI channel with the same patch:

One is set up to bend to one tone, the second to a semi tone and the other can be set to whatever you need it to be.

With Teach your Children in mind(and assuming it's in C, I don't remember the actual key)
At the end, this would happen:
G resolves to C this way
Beat 4+ to Beat 1
G -> G
B -> semi-tone bend to C
D -> one tone bend to E

I have been doing country and western MIDI programming for years and this is the best trick I have found although it takes a bit of thinking through sometimes to figure out how the individual lines will be played according to their bending needs.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:26 am

Recording w/ Cubase or VDAT is great as you can do several takes for a complete track merge, but I am trying to do this live, so I believe I will be handcuffed somewhat, whatever it takes. Cause there is so many Joe Bob rooms here in Vegas, it would be nice to show up for an audition playing fiddle, banjo, accordian, B3, piano, and pedal steel. Besides there is some really cool C & W but you won't see that on the Country Music Channel. I have the other instruments dialed in for years, as they are just knowledge / sound based like the pedal steel, but not near as complex. I just have to sit and think like a pedal steel player.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:15 pm

I have an idea:

Can you set up your patch to bend diatonically to the next note up?
In C:
C to D, D to E, E to F, etc.

I think I'm going to try this out myself. I have a few ideas for C&W songs.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:54 pm

Yes,
I'm trying to create some basic templates now. This thing is deep though. I need to keep trying it w/ different sounds. Giga will sucseed.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:15 pm

I just thought of another detail.

Say you're bending down from F to G (F-A-C to D-G-B) we now have to consider the tone and a half bend down from F to D.

This is getting complicated for just one channel to handle. The minor third bend would be handled by the third MIDI channel I spoke of in my first post.

Guitars are very hard to play with a keyboard and one of the reasons is the dynamic playing of each individual string.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:06 am

The bigger the challenge, the better. I have better luck w/ intervals, as opposed to triads. 4th's, 5th's, and 6th's will have to do 4 now. Using the expression peal up for the bi-directional bends is iffy, but just needs to be perfected. I will try your ideas tonight, and let you know how it's working. Trying to time the swells w/ this ancient yamaha cigar ( BRCntrl ) is a critical part to get also. Even if it isn't perfect, w/ more work it will get better.

Good Ideas R Appreciated, Thank You,

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:56 pm

You can do the swells using expression(CC11 in General MIDI) or add automation to your attacks to slow them down.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:20 pm

I am using the expression pedal 4 pitch bend, this is live. It helps knowing you can do it live, then you know pre production w/ be smooth. Besides I needed to use the old BCR. It is another one of Yamahas products that last decades.

Post by **garyb** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:07 pm

you could just use a volume pedal for swells...

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:05 pm

You guys are killing me. As I said previously, I have to bend the 2nd controller notes by foot, as this takes two hands, two feet, and my mouth to pull off. It is gonna happen though w/ lot's of practice. Besides I get a buzz from hyperventillating. This is a good eye / ear / foot / mouth / hand coordination excerise also. I have been standing playing keyboards 4 so long that sitting to play is refreshing also.

Post by **garyb** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:07 am

well,

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:25 am

scope4live wrote:..., I have to bend the 2nd controller notes by foot, as this takes two hands, two feet, and my mouth to pull off. ....

will you post a picture when you include the remaining parts of the body engaged with an AirFX or a D-Beam ?

cheers, Tom

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:47 am

astro, you mean like d-beam seat?

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:29 am

scope4live wrote:You guys are killing me. As I said previously, I have to bend the 2nd controller notes by foot, as this takes two hands, two feet, and my mouth to pull off. It is gonna happen though w/ lot's of practice. Besides I get a buzz from hyperventillating. This is a good eye / ear / foot / mouth / hand coordination excerise also. I have been standing playing keyboards 4 so long that sitting to play is refreshing also.

Pedal Steel IS played sitting down

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:18 am

On a more serious note, i noticed, that during gigs one of more pupular electronic musicians here (Smolik) has a compact solid body lap steel guitar fixed on top of his keyboards rig. Works sufficiently for him, or at least saves him from hyperventilation

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:05 pm

A Dobro 'eh? Excellant.
I am going insane w/ all of my gear, and the audience will be forced to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous emulations.

I am really enoying these last 2 months of everyday Scope experiments, and hopefully might have something worthy to contribute for letting you guys talk me into buying this stuff. It is awesome to say the least.

A developer from Nova Scotia has just blessed w/ some secret iMIDI controller tricks that are exclusive to the performance tricks in Gigastudio 3. It allows me to add awesome sounding totally controllable portamento glides w/ source and destination targeting. i.e. major 3rds to sus 4's w/o using anymore limbs, but rather aftertouch, and keyswitching dimensions. Killer !!!

And yes Astro, there will be a demo and pictures also. As it will be quite an achievement if I pull this ancient Yankee emulation off. Once I get my contract of the Hussie production bought and paid 4, I am going to travel to Hell and back to master all that I have bought. This I will do this summer.

To Us And Those Like Us,

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:40 pm

I have really become a sick bastard. I decided to play the Pedal Steel through my rotary cabinet, as if I didn't already have handcuffs on. I suddenly remembered the band that opened 4 Yes back in '73 called Poco. They had a Pedal Steel player going through a Twin, and a 147 Walnut Leslie cabinet. My subconcious side of the cerebellum must have remembered this. What a unique and awesome sound ! Plus, it has given me a break from the Octypus positions while seated. String slides while switching the rotary speeds from fast to slow, are incredibly hypnotic. Excuse me while I do some shots of Jaeger, smoke a bong, and drop some Acid.

I Have Never Felt So Free, Except When I Was Released From Jail.