A16 Ultra boot up time?

[kyunghwee]

I don't ever remember A16 Ultra ever have to be turned on for a while (10~15 min.) before its clock starts to work, either as a master or as a slave. Well, mine's doing that right now. Actually, it's been doing that for some time but I thought it was only when it was synched via Z-link to my PowerPulsar which apparently has gone bad. Anyone else had this problem with A16 Ultra before? I feel more repair calls approaching...

No digital connections made to A16 Ultra right now & when I turn it on & set it as master, sync LED remains red for a while then eventually it does turn green & audio signal starts to register in VU.

Seems like all my CreamWare products are dying at the same time...

Help!

[astroman]

if you find some strange accumulations of such events, there may be a problem with powersupply - either from the wall or the thing in your PC box.
Do you power the A16u via Z-link ?

if your main supply (from the wall) isn't properly grounded, there may be leakage current (under some conditions) that can easily fry things.
A low voltage difference result in a high current flowing (according to Ohm's law).

the main power may be polluted by industrial consumers in the surrounding, big machines, elevators, railways may induce 'power spikes'.
Not to forget the obvious 'strike by lightning' (the actual point may be several miles away) - the damage may not be obvious immediately (and completely).
It's similiar to electrostatic damage that has the devilish behaviour to manifest itself only occasionally.

the PSU in the PC can also generate powerspikes if it doesn't work properly - it's less likely with a quality device (and a well cooled one), but it could happen to any.
Does this point to some suspects ?

cheers, Tom

[kyunghwee]

I didn't even know that I can power A16 Ultra via Z-link. I've always used it with the power supply that came with it, which is then connected to Furman power conditioner (PL-8).
From your diagnosis, sounds like something did get fried up in my A16 Ultra. Both my computer & A16 Ultra are rack-mounted & at one point, there was a grounding problem with the computer's metal chasis, but that was a long time ago and A16 Ultra seemed to be working okay then.
Well, since I need to send in my PowerPulsar for service anyway (once I can get some detailed info & how to go about it from Ralf) I suppose I'll send in my A16 Ultra with it and get both of them taken care of at the same time.

Speaking of Ralf, does it normally take several emails to him before he's able to notice yours or something? It seems like I never get a reply from him right on the 1st email but only after 2nd or 3rd request.

[astroman]

I didn't even know that I can power A16 Ultra via Z-link...

I may have messed it with CWA's other FW box, so never mind ...

otherwise it certainly improves things with a quality power conditioner bewteen your rig and the main supply.
When you have had that ground problem, something may have been damaged in a way that it doesn't fail completely, but runs at the limit of specs.
Sometime later it will exceed these limits and fail, then it will (most likely) work again for some time, but fail another day.
It's the most horrible kind of problem as you just can't get a grip on it... whenever you think you've got the source, it will (according to Murphy) change it's behaviour.

email delivery isn't very reliable today, due to tons of spam - there ARE so called 'blackhole' servers to which streams of (supposed) spams are routed just to get them off the net. Google for mail, blacklist and blackhole if you like.
Since CWA is an international business they suffer particularily from this.
It's really not their fault - I've talked to Ralf on the phone and you can rely on that he's the most helpful and engaged person you can image - really

cheers, Tom

[katano]

The A16 ultra only works with a power supply. The Luna I/O-Box is powered over z-link.

never had problems with my A16U, touch wood. but agree that it could be a faulty power supply. have you tried slaving it via z-link? same behaviour?

greez
Roman

[kyunghwee]

When I had my Z-link source (PowerPulsar/Scope) card working, A16 Ultra did behave the same way taking a while to synch up to PowerPulsar. So I just typically left A16 Ultra on all the time so I don't have to deal with it taking extra time to get its synch working since it worked fine once it got to work.
Right now, my Z-link source (PowerPulsar/Scope) card is dead so I can't test it right now.

I'm in the process of getting RMA from Ralf for both hardwares.

I wonder if it's just simply a problem with the power supply.

[AudioDan]

Hi kyunghwee,
I'm wondering if you've had any results from your A16 Ultra problem, 'cause mine has just done a similar thing (after moving house) but it doesn't boot at all. I left it on over night in "Master" sync mode and nothing happened. I've sent an email to Sonic Core to see if they have any suggestions but I'm wondering if you'd had any luck yet?
Cheers,

AudioDan

[garyb]

make sure your power supply is working properly(measure it's output at least) before going any further....

[Bifop]

kyunghwee, I had to change the power supply to stop this behaviour in the Studio's A16ultra (not mine). I'm 99% confident you experience the same problem.

[kyunghwee]

Well, after some serious delivery issues, my A16 Ultra finally got to and from SonicCore and it seems to be working now. I'm not sure what they've done to it but the unit syncs up right away as the master.
I have yet to try how it does in z-link sync.

I'll keep you posted once I can get my DSP card to work.

BTW, I think my shipping cost was more than actual repair cost.... I'm just glad to finally have it back.

[AudioDan]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Power supplies of that spec are in short supply in Australia, but I have found one (unregulated ) that delivers up to 4000mA. Not sure if I should use it though, I've heard that the voltage output of an unregulated PSU will rise if the device it's powering doesn't draw enough of the available current. I'm assuming I'm better off trying to find a PSU that's either closer to the 2500mA or that is regulated. (Not great with the nitty-gritty of electronics....)
Still awaiting a reply from Sonic Core (but it's only been a full day now since I sent off the email so not getting too restless yet)
I also talked to both the previous and current importer / wholesaler of Creamware in OZ and neither could give me an answer other than that they'd never heard of the problem and were surprised to see an A16 Ultra not working.
The funny thing is I've always had a minor issue with mine where the input metering after some time of the unit being turned on and used would begin to randomly spike. No input level would be present (of course) when this was happening, but the A16 would make the same 'sizzling' noise it always does when metering every time one of these spikes occured. The spikes never registered as any kind of noise so I never took any notice of it.
The thing is, that in Australia the power mains power supply can fluxuate between 220 and 260V. I more recently added a Power conditioner to the system (which admittedly is not a voltage reg. but does some serious filtering of the noise from the mains - off-peak signals are rather annoying for somebody who most often works at night) and thing ran a little more smoothly since then.
Now that I think about it though, it could very well be the PSU because I would imagine as the unit boot and the 'sizzling' sound happens with all the meters doing their thing, it must be using a fair bit of current. It's possible my PSU is only putting out enough current to power up the LED's and nothing else. ADAT outputs don't even turn on - though I imagine they would come on after the unit receives sync, generally.
Anyway, I'm rambling now.
Thanks again for your help and suggestions. I'll wait for the reply from Sonic Core and then I'll make some kind of move.

Cheers,

AudioDan

[garyb]

yes, i wouldn't use an unregulated supply....

[astroman]

...but I have found one (unregulated ) that delivers up to 4000mA. Not sure if I should use it though, I've heard that the voltage output of an unregulated PSU will rise if the device it's powering doesn't draw enough of the available current. I'm assuming I'm better off trying to find a PSU that's either closer to the 2500mA or that is regulated. ...

this is correct - if the box is supposed to deliver 12V at 4A it will probably put out something in the 20V range if the load is roughly half.
If the PSU is speced for 2.5 A, that does not mean the A16 actually draws (exactly) that amount - there's always some margin.
Nevertheless you don't need to be too concerned, as there's a regulation inside the A16U, which will simply produce more heat and shut itself off if it gets too hot. To fry the regulators you'd need significantly more voltage.

...No input level would be present (of course) when this was happening, but the A16 would make the same 'sizzling' noise it always does when metering every time one of these spikes occured. The spikes never registered as any kind of noise so I never took any notice of it...

I'd suspect a broken or cold solder joint in the supply path and would consider the 'spikes' either HF oder ultra low regulation noise.

..., it could very well be the PSU because I would imagine as the unit boot and the 'sizzling' sound happens with all the meters doing their thing, it must be using a fair bit of current. It's possible my PSU is only putting out enough current to power up the LED's and nothing else. ...

not at all - unless it is completely underpowered

the unit is most likely still covered by some kind of warranty and it's indeed wise to wait on SonicCore's advice.
On the other hand (considering your location) it should be no problem to have a technician in a (preferably high end) hifi shop have a peek at the boards.
They are familiar with cold solder joints in a lot of vintage audio equipment.

cheers, Tom

I would NOT use a regulated PSU if the original is NOT regulated
I dunno what comes with the A16U, but usually regulation is done close to the circuit. 2 regulators may interfere with each other.

[AudioDan]

Hi Astroman,
Thanks for the info. I can't tell if the supply is regulated or not. It doesn't say on the supply if it's regulated, and (for possibly the first time ever) when I type the model number of the PSU into google I get no results. The PSU is made in China and has no brand name. Not helpful at all. I would have thought however, that if the thing was regulated, they'd make a 'big deal' of it on the PSU itself.
There is really only one repair centre around here that I'd trust (definitely no Hi-Fi shops/repair places) and they are the official repair centre for Roland Australia and a host of other companies and products. Long turn around time, but most likely to be repaired without extra damage. (One other place that was recommended to me, while fixing a TASCAM 2488 for a customer of my work, managed to spill some kind of solvent all over the top of the unit, which then required an entire new main board and top cover to be ordered in from Japan. What made it worse was that the repair centre was not the one recommended for the warranty repair and the customer had taken it upon themselves to take the 2488 to this repair centre because they had used them before. Anyway, you can see why I'm a bit nervous handing over my A16U to just any old guy with a soldering iron and a tongue out the corner of his mouth. )
I've had my A16U now since early 2005 so I think it's well out of warranty by now. Wish it wasn't but, time moves on.
No anaswer from SC yet.

Cheers,

Daniel

[neuromantik]

The funny thing is I've always had a minor issue with mine where the input metering after some time of the unit being turned on and used would begin to randomly spike. No input level would be present (of course) when this was happening, but the A16 would make the same 'sizzling' noise it always does when metering every time one of these spikes occured. The spikes never registered as any kind of noise so I never took any notice of it.
The thing is, that in Australia the power mains power supply can fluxuate between 220 and 260V. I more recently added a Power conditioner to the system (which admittedly is not a voltage reg. but does some serious filtering of the noise from the mains - off-peak signals are rather annoying for somebody who most often works at night) and thing ran a little more smoothly since then.
Now that I think about it though, it could very well be the PSU because I would imagine as the unit boot and the 'sizzling' sound happens with all the meters doing their thing, it must be using a fair bit of current. It's possible my PSU is only putting out enough current to power up the LED's and nothing else. ADAT outputs don't even turn on - though I imagine they would come on after the unit receives sync, generally.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I just plugged in my old green A16U to my new Xite through Z-link, and everytime I send some signal to the Xite Zlink A Dest (hooked up to bank A on the A16U) I'm getting these input level spikes which hurt my monitors really bad There are no inputs on Channel 1 & 9 (where I'm seeing the spikes) but I'm using the original US power supply hooked up to a step down transformer for my France 220V. Maybe the transformer is shot, or the power supply, but I'm out of ideas. Anyone see these spikes? Any webshops carry 12vAC 1.5a EU transformers?