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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-08-16 11:52 ]</font>
Digital audio Soft > Price-List avaible ...
I realise & understand what you guys are saying, but I just don't think synth & audio developement should be primarily about money when 80% of the market don't have any.
Look at the synth diy market for example. There's lots of small devs designing & building custom pcbs, custom developement products for virtually no profit.
Take a look at the current state of synthedit & it's third party devs (including DADEV, who has moved to the dark side
) Synthedit is a platform becoming better sounding & better supported as we speak & yet most of the dev work has been done virtually for free or very minimal donation-ware (which I've contributed to in Jeff (the creator) & Dave Haupt's cases.)
We will support all of the 3rd party devs when we have money spare, but that isn't often for most of us here, so it'll be a VERY slow process.
Look at the synth diy market for example. There's lots of small devs designing & building custom pcbs, custom developement products for virtually no profit.
Take a look at the current state of synthedit & it's third party devs (including DADEV, who has moved to the dark side
) Synthedit is a platform becoming better sounding & better supported as we speak & yet most of the dev work has been done virtually for free or very minimal donation-ware (which I've contributed to in Jeff (the creator) & Dave Haupt's cases.) We will support all of the 3rd party devs when we have money spare, but that isn't often for most of us here, so it'll be a VERY slow process.
Tried checking the Devices forum here?I just don't think synth & audio developement should be primarily about money
Considering the userbase, I think most DP'ers must love their work a lot to keep pumping out devices for us all...
more has been done with less
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio
)
The P100 example is perfect, as stressed by Warp69. I would underline 3 points :
1) DSP USAGE : The price of the excellent P100 (sonictimeworks)was (is!) cheap but sales have been lower than expected. That seems amazing, but as mentionned the dsp usage is quite important, so this plug is dedicated to big CW users...that can explain the results. On the other hand, a good EQ - like those of digitalaudio - is aiming at most of the CW owners because of the small DSP usage. So a good price WILL lead to big sales. That'a a key point, i think.
2) HIGH PRICE and FAME : when you are on vst platforms you can ask big prices that may lead to a kind of fame ("this plug must be a monster..." - see what happens with WAVES'S ones) because a lot of people are potential buyers. Or under Pro tools, as almost all the owners are "rich", the same effect works... BUT, for scope plug ins, you know that the market is by far smaller. So the more you will sell, the more people who do not have it will purchase it, that's all (IMHO..)
3) UTILITY : Brainbox is the proof that only few people will waste 600 euros for a kind of "EQ". But many of us have wasted this price to get SOUNDS (Minimax, B2003, ZARG ...). On this subject i do think that most of us won't pay too much for an effect (let's say that a good reverb can be the most expensive plug in) whereas a good synth can be more expensive.
That just my opinion, and i am still wondering if Brainbox (their plug in rocks ! it is a pity that they did not propose another price range) had thought about these aspects.
Just to explain my opinion ...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-06-01 00:17 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-06-01 00:18 ]</font>
1) DSP USAGE : The price of the excellent P100 (sonictimeworks)was (is!) cheap but sales have been lower than expected. That seems amazing, but as mentionned the dsp usage is quite important, so this plug is dedicated to big CW users...that can explain the results. On the other hand, a good EQ - like those of digitalaudio - is aiming at most of the CW owners because of the small DSP usage. So a good price WILL lead to big sales. That'a a key point, i think.
2) HIGH PRICE and FAME : when you are on vst platforms you can ask big prices that may lead to a kind of fame ("this plug must be a monster..." - see what happens with WAVES'S ones) because a lot of people are potential buyers. Or under Pro tools, as almost all the owners are "rich", the same effect works... BUT, for scope plug ins, you know that the market is by far smaller. So the more you will sell, the more people who do not have it will purchase it, that's all (IMHO..)
3) UTILITY : Brainbox is the proof that only few people will waste 600 euros for a kind of "EQ". But many of us have wasted this price to get SOUNDS (Minimax, B2003, ZARG ...). On this subject i do think that most of us won't pay too much for an effect (let's say that a good reverb can be the most expensive plug in) whereas a good synth can be more expensive.
That just my opinion, and i am still wondering if Brainbox (their plug in rocks ! it is a pity that they did not propose another price range) had thought about these aspects.
Just to explain my opinion ...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-06-01 00:17 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-06-01 00:18 ]</font>
bill3107 - I cannot agree with any of your points.
1. As Astroman said, Warp69 DSP usage is not that high.
2. If you look at something like Elemental Audio VST plugins - these were incredibly cheap compared to Waves etc, but they didn't have great sales (you can read Kvraudio.com etc to find out what happened to those plugins now). In the VST world just as any other, people are very reluctant to pay for things. They will jump on the bandwagon of 3785839489 mediocre Synthedit plugins because they are free. Sales of commercial plugins suffer... I have seen threads ono Kvraudio where vendors commercial plugins are derided/flamed/etc because they dare to charge money for them while there are at least 5 or 6 free examples that resemble the commercial plug.
3. If you have no interest in mastering, you (a) have no need for the Brainrox EQ and (b) you have absolutely no idea what such EQs cost.
Sorry to argue but it sounds like you're desperately trying to come up with theories.
1. As Astroman said, Warp69 DSP usage is not that high.
2. If you look at something like Elemental Audio VST plugins - these were incredibly cheap compared to Waves etc, but they didn't have great sales (you can read Kvraudio.com etc to find out what happened to those plugins now). In the VST world just as any other, people are very reluctant to pay for things. They will jump on the bandwagon of 3785839489 mediocre Synthedit plugins because they are free. Sales of commercial plugins suffer... I have seen threads ono Kvraudio where vendors commercial plugins are derided/flamed/etc because they dare to charge money for them while there are at least 5 or 6 free examples that resemble the commercial plug.
3. If you have no interest in mastering, you (a) have no need for the Brainrox EQ and (b) you have absolutely no idea what such EQs cost.
Sorry to argue but it sounds like you're desperately trying to come up with theories.
Dark, I think you should really take a proper look at the Synthedit scene if you haven't recently (in the last year or 2) It has been massively improved (completely rebuilt) which is why even skilled, programming literate guys like DADEV have moved over there in favour of here. They can start from nuts & bolts, 1's & 0's and build their own algos into new modules (which is what DADEV & many many others capable of programming are doing) The end result may well only be a few dozen gems out of hundreds of mediocre SE plug-ins, but those numbers shouldn't make Synthedit a platform to mock. It's the mediocre devs who release the dross plugs & the talented ones shouldn't be dragged down by that fact just because some commercial hoohah's are gettin' bitter about lack of sales of their plugs.
Sorry for the ranting on Sonolive's thread, but Synthedit deserves a lot more respect imo, no matter what any plug-in sales rep with a petted lip says on KVR (or here for that matter)
Sorry for the ranting on Sonolive's thread, but Synthedit deserves a lot more respect imo, no matter what any plug-in sales rep with a petted lip says on KVR (or here for that matter)
Well, for me, leaving aside issues of sound quality, SE plugs represent high CPU usage and instability. I do know that it can be used as a GUI design environment for building devices out of self-coded DSP modules. However, the inefficient architecture always remains.
Anyway my point originally is that since these free plugins exist, people are very reluctant to buy a commercial plugin even if it sounds better.
I used this example not to start an anti-SE debate but to illustrate a similar situation to that on Scope - there are a massive amount of freebies and spare CW plugins floating around on the 2nd hand market. Because of this, the 3rd party commercial plugins suffer a lot.
Anyway my point originally is that since these free plugins exist, people are very reluctant to buy a commercial plugin even if it sounds better.
I used this example not to start an anti-SE debate but to illustrate a similar situation to that on Scope - there are a massive amount of freebies and spare CW plugins floating around on the 2nd hand market. Because of this, the 3rd party commercial plugins suffer a lot.
Hey, I didn't mean to start a SE debate either, but I think as a platform it should get as much respect as any deep modular dev enviroment, of which there aren't many. It was rebuilt with the help of a community of DSP programing enthusiasts who wanted to stabalise & streamline it. They succeeded. What people do with it is another matter, that's all I meant 
hehe, especially if you've got a box of Scope DSP plugsOn 2006-06-01 03:56, darkrezin wrote:
Anyway my point originally is that since these free plugins exist, people are very reluctant to buy a commercial plugin even if it sounds better.
remember that psychologic price fixing is based on %.... that means that although we have different thoughts about pricing, the key point is what kind of customers they want to aim at and/or the % of the CW users. BUUUUUUUUT... if a plug in developped for CW cards could be THE best plug in of the world (with a media coverage), that could boost the CW sells... that is why i think that a firm developping plug ins should at first sell A LOT of products.
Sorry if my english gives the impression my thoughts are the best ones. It is just one opinion of course...
Jo
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-06-01 05:34 ]</font>
Sorry if my english gives the impression my thoughts are the best ones. It is just one opinion of course...
Jo
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-06-01 05:34 ]</font>
and the fact is that the better the plugg is the better the sound will be,assuming that you know how to use the plug
if you can't use high end pluggs don't buy them but you can if you want to learn using them its a question of strategy of work!
I agree that 499 euros is too much
but if you consider the quality of the plug and the fact that other pluggs cost more you may think its a very good price if you have the money.
so for sure 499 is a reasonable price
if you can't use high end pluggs don't buy them but you can if you want to learn using them its a question of strategy of work!
I agree that 499 euros is too much
but if you consider the quality of the plug and the fact that other pluggs cost more you may think its a very good price if you have the money.
so for sure 499 is a reasonable price
Hey, where are the "Digitalaudiosoft" now???
We are still waiting until may...
These demos makes me addict, I can wait anymore!!!
Aargh!!!
Any news?
ps. seems to be a "DPS effects attack" on the market!!! SSL Duende, Focusrite Liquidmix, Waves SSL, UAD NEVE... Digitalaudiosoft combines almost all of these features for Scope
. I really don't know if these devices are close to the real thing, but I can say that sounds very good!!!
We are still waiting until may...
These demos makes me addict, I can wait anymore!!!
Aargh!!!
Any news?
ps. seems to be a "DPS effects attack" on the market!!! SSL Duende, Focusrite Liquidmix, Waves SSL, UAD NEVE... Digitalaudiosoft combines almost all of these features for Scope
. I really don't know if these devices are close to the real thing, but I can say that sounds very good!!!