Very simple topic , is my scope project card going to be able to work with windows 64 bit?Sonar 5 apparently rocks the free world with its 64 bit engine , and I just found out today I had been douped into buying a 64 bit chip without my knowing , and that salesguy thought he was workin me over!!!!Hehe , i guess it all works out in the end.But yeah , if anybody knows if that would be a problem shout back.
Thanks
Broken
"The Little Studio"
64 bit with my scope project
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broken_halo
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Herr Voigt
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soon.
likely.
scope will have to go 64bit when win64 is beyond being a beta os(it almost is), if they continue to sell it. sonar is still really the only major app promoting 64bit at the moment, but that is to be expected. whatever m$ wants to do, cakewalk jumps up and down and proclains it to be the best thing. that's why sonar was the last app to use asio drivers. sonar promoted wdm drivers and dx for m$ to death, explaining over and over why they were the best. in the end, they were wrong. cakewalk's mortal enemy steinberg did better with asio and vst and users demanded them.
as to sonar rockin the free world just because of 64bit, don't bet on it. eventually, there will be a considerable boost in performace, but not BECAUSE of the system being 64bit. better to keep optimizing a structure than to keep redesigning it. the biggest problem is that the os must be all things to all people. you can believe that the music industry is always lower on the list of concerns than say, gaming or internet use. expect that trend to continue and get worse.
in spite of this seeming pessimism, i'm sure the next gen of products will be loads of fun anyway. i'm just saying that there's a lost of waste of the theoretical improvements of any new computer product. they never deliver on the promise and so there's always something new to buy. i seriously doubt, however, if going to 64bit will make you any more productive or improve the quality of your productions. i could be wrong.
of course in sales talk, all problems are always solved by buying something new.
what help will more ram be? what app is running out of memory? more is not always an improvement. what if your girlfreind becomes a bunch more fat? you might like a little more girl, but sooner or later you'll have enough....64bit is NOT twice as fast!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-05-02 18:22 ]</font>
likely.
scope will have to go 64bit when win64 is beyond being a beta os(it almost is), if they continue to sell it. sonar is still really the only major app promoting 64bit at the moment, but that is to be expected. whatever m$ wants to do, cakewalk jumps up and down and proclains it to be the best thing. that's why sonar was the last app to use asio drivers. sonar promoted wdm drivers and dx for m$ to death, explaining over and over why they were the best. in the end, they were wrong. cakewalk's mortal enemy steinberg did better with asio and vst and users demanded them.
as to sonar rockin the free world just because of 64bit, don't bet on it. eventually, there will be a considerable boost in performace, but not BECAUSE of the system being 64bit. better to keep optimizing a structure than to keep redesigning it. the biggest problem is that the os must be all things to all people. you can believe that the music industry is always lower on the list of concerns than say, gaming or internet use. expect that trend to continue and get worse.
in spite of this seeming pessimism, i'm sure the next gen of products will be loads of fun anyway. i'm just saying that there's a lost of waste of the theoretical improvements of any new computer product. they never deliver on the promise and so there's always something new to buy. i seriously doubt, however, if going to 64bit will make you any more productive or improve the quality of your productions. i could be wrong.
of course in sales talk, all problems are always solved by buying something new.
what help will more ram be? what app is running out of memory? more is not always an improvement. what if your girlfreind becomes a bunch more fat? you might like a little more girl, but sooner or later you'll have enough....64bit is NOT twice as fast!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-05-02 18:22 ]</font>
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broken_halo
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:00 pm
Of course I know it is not twice as fast , I find it quite hipocritical of people to be so negative upon things based upon "microsoft" .It seems to be that the majority of us all run on microsoft based products and probably will continue to (although linux is really pushing their way in)of course microsoft runs almost everything , they are a business and have to market what they have.They did not make any false ads as per their 64 bit applications , i have done my homework and know what it is for and what it does.It doesnt matter in what language or what environment it is 64 bit has exponentially larger ram capabilities, freeing up space in my envirnment and YES allowing me to work better and essentially make better work of what I have.Remember , we live in a world where bigger is not always better but are you gonna live in the dark and not allow changes ,wheels do fall off the cart but it only takes so long to put them back on.I believe we learn how to make music better , not in the sense of plastic coating a mix with 20 plugs and effects , but making it tangible.Im sorry that people had to learn on tape and analogue in the earlier times , and I wouldnt hold a candle to their knowledge , but I come from a different time where I had to learn from what I had and that was comps and DAWS.Compare this to HDTV , i dont see anyone bitching about it NOW cuz it works , almost a perfect representation of what we see (minus the 3-d)SO why cant we continue forward towards a better representaion of our sound and our music , I know that we want to be heard but if we have the ability and the resources for people to hear us better ,louder , clearer dont you think that would be worth the while of all this advancement.Why are we going to wait for a switch this quality of media before we have a chance to understand and master it ourselves?
I rest my case
Broken
The Little Studio
I rest my case
Broken
The Little Studio
yeah well, you misunderstand me.
when the change comes, it comes. just don't be so sure it's a big improvement, at least at this point.
what i DID say, was that it would be BETTER to choose a format, an os and optimize the F@$K out of it, to the point that it couldn't be any more optimized and do the same with the apps, before changing the format. you'll gain much more funtionality faster and cheaper that way. computers are fairly inefficient and are getting worse the faster the processor and the heavier the os, because of the constant sprint for new. it's crazy to want new when the old isn't worn out yet...
soon, however, there'll be more than one 64bit app out there and it'll be NESSESSARY to go 64bit on new machines. this would be the perfect time to use it. just because something's new doesn't mean it's an improvement. only being able to use one app might or might not be advantageous.
one thing's for sure though, marketers are full of s@$t. i always remember the mackie ads for thier 8 bus mixers claiming to be from an "engineer" who claimed "i work on SSLs all day long and my MACKIEtm 8BUStm sounds better than any SSL i've used.". SSLs cost over $150,000 THEN. many are more expensive now. the mackie 8 bus is like $3000. utter lies...
what i said about m$, was that cakewalk is a shill for them. they profit share. the performance figures are not real. they are marketing. some specific functions will be enhanced, but the final product is not nessessarily, it depends a lot on how you use it.
you know it's funny, i got just about as many tracks and plugins with win98, an 850mhz amd, 512k ram and logic 5 as i do with my xp, p4 3.2, 2gb ram and cubase. cubase and xp are very nice, however, i'm not sorry i made the change, but i wouldn't claim to get more work done. the newer programs are cooler, but they are heavier users of resources as is xp compared to 98. the newest os will be even heavier....
ps
you STILL need that knowledge of sound people used back in the stone age when they had to actually be able to play their music and used tape machines. they were not hindered by the tech, they USED it, the same way real musicians USE the tech now.
further edit:
in all this ranting i think my answer has been missed. there is no 64bit driver at the moment, but it is likely to be seen in the near future...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-05-03 00:45 ]</font>
when the change comes, it comes. just don't be so sure it's a big improvement, at least at this point.
what i DID say, was that it would be BETTER to choose a format, an os and optimize the F@$K out of it, to the point that it couldn't be any more optimized and do the same with the apps, before changing the format. you'll gain much more funtionality faster and cheaper that way. computers are fairly inefficient and are getting worse the faster the processor and the heavier the os, because of the constant sprint for new. it's crazy to want new when the old isn't worn out yet...
soon, however, there'll be more than one 64bit app out there and it'll be NESSESSARY to go 64bit on new machines. this would be the perfect time to use it. just because something's new doesn't mean it's an improvement. only being able to use one app might or might not be advantageous.
one thing's for sure though, marketers are full of s@$t. i always remember the mackie ads for thier 8 bus mixers claiming to be from an "engineer" who claimed "i work on SSLs all day long and my MACKIEtm 8BUStm sounds better than any SSL i've used.". SSLs cost over $150,000 THEN. many are more expensive now. the mackie 8 bus is like $3000. utter lies...
what i said about m$, was that cakewalk is a shill for them. they profit share. the performance figures are not real. they are marketing. some specific functions will be enhanced, but the final product is not nessessarily, it depends a lot on how you use it.
you know it's funny, i got just about as many tracks and plugins with win98, an 850mhz amd, 512k ram and logic 5 as i do with my xp, p4 3.2, 2gb ram and cubase. cubase and xp are very nice, however, i'm not sorry i made the change, but i wouldn't claim to get more work done. the newer programs are cooler, but they are heavier users of resources as is xp compared to 98. the newest os will be even heavier....
ps
you STILL need that knowledge of sound people used back in the stone age when they had to actually be able to play their music and used tape machines. they were not hindered by the tech, they USED it, the same way real musicians USE the tech now.
further edit:
in all this ranting i think my answer has been missed. there is no 64bit driver at the moment, but it is likely to be seen in the near future...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-05-03 00:45 ]</font>
I'd like to extend that point a little bit to digital TV in general, which was also announced as THE BIG improvement.On 2006-05-02 23:25, broken_halo wrote:
...Compare this to HDTV , i dont see anyone bitching about it NOW cuz it works , almost a perfect representation of what we see (minus the 3-d)SO why cant we continue forward towards a better representaion of our sound and our music , ...
In fact there are (excellent) broadcasts where it really is, but the true driving force is the more economic use of bandwidth.
Obviously 'regular' consumers tolerate an enormous amount of decrease in quality - just as can be experienced with MP3.
I still remember the days from analog TV where you could actually identify a soccer player in 'overview' scenes - in digital all dots are (more or less) equal...
Of course they have brilliant detail scenes now (and the merits of digital cam technology in motion tracking are unquestioned), but it's not all good by itself, it depends on the content and how tools are applied.
Just as it's supposed to be in music
Nevertheless a good part that makes HDTV stand out so much is based on the fact that people got used to low bandwidth digital transmissions - here (in Germany) they even drove it over the top with DVB-T (terrestrial stuff) based on a third of a cable channels bandwidth (afaik)...
And certain movies will not get any better by an increased picture quality anyway, as won't Starsearch and the like's 'musical' output
cheers, Tom
further below is an excerpt from <a href=http://vstte.ethz.ch/pdfs/vstte-mathai-draft.pdf>Formal Techniques in Large-Scale Software Engineering</a> published by the ETH ZurichOn 2006-05-02 23:25, broken_halo wrote:
Of course I know it is not twice as fast , ...find it quite hipocritical of people to be so negative upon things based upon "microsoft" ...
M$ is said to have 1000 programmers on it's 50 million lines OS project.
according to the figures below the manual developement approach would require 15 years of work for that team
A 'fully automated' approach could improve efficiency upto 20 times and thus would fit a 'real-world' schedule, but unfortunately the example project is about financial transactions, not about an operating system...
Assuming they'd succed anyway because they are just that smart, the final product would be 2-3 times less efficient than a traditionally coded work...
Whatever way you turn it, the M$ marketing announcement can never work in a customer oriented way.
They will just move the upgrade spiral a few turns further on - which is not unwelcomed... literally millions, myself among them, make a living from the 'consequences' of that method...
So I'm the last to complain, but it doesn't change anything on the facts, so I'm also the last to deny
Apple has it's way of marketing, as has M$ and even the OpenSource community - that's legitimate and nothing bad at all.
But to call it truth and make real-world decisions based on these tales is not exactly appropriate imho - on the other hand, if noone complains...
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-05-03 03:04 ]</font>...A programmer produces around 15 lines of code per day when averaged over a project; there will be outstanding programmers who far exceed this average, and there will be others whose average is significantly lower. Taking the average as a representative figure, it is not difficult to calculate the time and effort it will take to produce programs of the size typically expected in a reasonable-sized project. For example, a final program of one million lines will require just under 300 person years of effort, or a team of 100 programmers working for 3 years.
...
This leads to the need for generating as much code as possible, rather than producing it by hand.
...
Example
A large and highly complex financial services software system was produced using a software development environment that included automated code generation from UML models and compact operational definitions of operations.
A team of 20-30 engineers were responsible for defining the requirements over 5 months and a team of 60 programmers developed the UML models and operational definitions to generate over 6M lines of code in 6 months. Few errors were discovered during testing and very little re-work needed to be done. The productivity per programmer was as high as 300 lines of generated code per day.
Given the inefficiencies in size of generated code, dividing the final program size by 2 or 3 would give a figure closer to the size that may be expected from a team of good programmers working using the usual methods. However, with manual programming both the team size and the project duration would increase very greatly...
On 2006-05-03 00:38, garyb wrote:
i always remember the mackie ads for thier 8 bus mixers claiming to be from an "engineer" who claimed "i work on SSLs all day long and my MACKIEtm 8BUStm sounds better than any SSL i've used.". SSLs cost over $150,000 THEN. many are more expensive now. the mackie 8 bus is like $3000. utter lies...
what i said about m$, was that cakewalk is a shill for them. they profit share. the performance figures are not real. they are marketing.
yes you're right. sonar 5 users are not happy with this update. so many new things went wrong. maybe 64bit will be stable after 2 years or so
in the mean time hopefully cw will come with new driver.anyway... im really interested about linux with pulsar
do you guys know any update thanks
They don't have to do anything since they are a privately owned company. For all we know they don't plan to do any more major changes to the SFP.
On 2006-05-02 17:56, garyb wrote:
soon.
likely.
scope will have to go 64bit when win64 is beyond being a beta os(it almost is), if they continue to sell it. sonar is still really the only major app promoting 64bit at the moment, but that is to be expected. whatever m$ wants to do, cakewalk jumps up and down and proclains it to be the best thing. that's why sonar was the last app to use asio drivers. sonar promoted wdm drivers and dx for m$ to death, explaining over and over why they were the best. in the end, they were wrong. cakewalk's mortal enemy steinberg did better with asio and vst and users demanded them.
as to sonar rockin the free world just because of 64bit, don't bet on it. eventually, there will be a considerable boost in performace, but not BECAUSE of the system being 64bit. better to keep optimizing a structure than to keep redesigning it. the biggest problem is that the os must be all things to all people. you can believe that the music industry is always lower on the list of concerns than say, gaming or internet use. expect that trend to continue and get worse.
in spite of this seeming pessimism, i'm sure the next gen of products will be loads of fun anyway. i'm just saying that there's a lost of waste of the theoretical improvements of any new computer product. they never deliver on the promise and so there's always something new to buy. i seriously doubt, however, if going to 64bit will make you any more productive or improve the quality of your productions. i could be wrong.
of course in sales talk, all problems are always solved by buying something new.
what help will more ram be? what app is running out of memory? more is not always an improvement. what if your girlfreind becomes a bunch more fat? you might like a little more girl, but sooner or later you'll have enough....64bit is NOT twice as fast!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-05-02 18:22 ]</font>