Scope15 DSP +SONAR5 against PC

pierre · Post by **pierre** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:56 am

HI does anyONE resolve this ISSUE: crushing and freezing between scope and intel 955+ duo Core processor and Matrox Display card etc With Sonar 5
Cheers

Aries · Post by **Aries** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:16 am

You should probably give more details and check others freezing problems, by doing a search in problem solving and tech talk.

[ This Message was edited by: Aries on 2006-03-23 00:43 ]

Post by **garyb** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:29 am

that combo works. need lots more info to say what your problem is.

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:24 pm

I see it with a dual Opteron rig and I assume you are going to see this more and more with the dual core technology.

I wrote creamware about it and they replied Scope is not compatible with dual CPU systems and that it is fact that creamware have no intention of updating the scope platform

Time to look for a new interface I am afraid. Too bad.

It happens to me if you open a scope project while Sonar is open. When you close sonar, it locks the PC.

IE:
open project in sonar
open matching SFP project file ( unloading and reloading ASIO drivers.)
close Sonar
lock!!
If write caching is enabled on your hard disk, the last file you saved in Sonar is very likely corrupt as well.

This is a killer bug.
direct from Creamware tech support

:
If this works fine on a single CPU then with my limited knowledge of creamware products I can assume that the the scope platform is not right for dual CPU systems and vise versa.

I was told by Head Office that Scope does not take advantage of dual CPU.
Also that they never recommended dual CPU with creamware.

There is also the fact that the Creamware head office won't be updating the Scope platform in the foreseeable future. So I hope you can make do with the available drivers that the Scope Platform offers.

CH

Post by **garyb** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:10 pm

that procedure causing a lock is NOT a bug. you are pulling the driver out from under the asio app(sonar) and that will ALWAYS cause a lockup regardless of hardware. you can't open another scope project after opening sonar, you must close sonar first. you cannot close scope first and then sonar.

scope DOES work with duals and dual core as many in this forum will tell you. single core is preferred, but this is the same story for rme.

believe me or not, this is the situation. "If this works fine on a single CPU then with my limited knowledge of creamware products I can assume that the the scope platform is not right for dual CPU systems and vise versa." means that support doen't have this problem and if it works with singles, then scope must not work with duals. however, this "problem" you describe would happen on single or dual cpu machines, so it's NOT a problem related to the number of cpus and the quote is meaningless, a misunderstanding between you and support.

"I was told by Head Office that Scope does not take advantage of dual CPU.
Also that they never recommended dual CPU with creamware." this doesn't mean that scope has any problems with duals or that it won't work, just that it is not optimised for duals(meaning it won't see any gain in performance from them), and that if there are problems relating to duals, cwa is not suggesting that it SHOULD work. it is a protective statement, discouraging those who would likely complain from buying a dual system.

i ran a dual cpu scope machine years ago with dual p3 1ghz and rdram. it worked just fine. singles are more stable, but ALL windows apps run better on a single cpu. a 1.8ghz p4 single outperformed dual 1ghz p3s in my experience. i'll bet things haven't changed that much. common sense says that limited energy will be put into multiprocessor apps since single processors are so much more common, even with "dual core" technology.

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:29 pm

The problem gary is that doing that does not lock up a single CPU machine. It locks a dual up hard.

I have also been using a dual box with CW for a few years. started with dual athlom MP 2000's.

And it is not the changing that locks up the drivers, it is after the drivers have been swapped and you close Sonar.

Might be a sonar issue as well as you used to be able to do this without incident up until Sonar 4.0.3. After that update, the PC locks after you have swapped the drivers AND close Sonar.Agian, only on a dual CPU machine. The single CPU Scope users I have talked to and got to try this have had no problem with sustem lockup after closing Sonar

Post by **garyb** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:03 pm

that is the way it's supposed to work. if you don't have lockups on the single cpu machine, lucky you.

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:13 am

Yes, changing Scope projects and then closing Sonar afterward will cause a crash no matter how many CPUs you have. It's an ASIO thing. I've done it lots of times accidentally.

If you're having any other lockups with dualcore, try the 3.1b drivers for Scope -- they seem to work better. Ali at CW Canada said I could pass them around. They're at:

http://www.shaynesworld.com/3.1b_drivers.zip

Good luck,

Shayne

_________________
Melodious Synth Radio
http://www.melodious-synth.com

[ This Message was edited by: Shayne White on 2006-03-27 09:14 ]

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:48 am

I use to lose my Giga outputs to SFP when I changed performances in GS3. I learned to load one large project for both apps, and not load again till I had a break in the show. Switching GSP caused the audio dropouts
from that app, but I have found a workaround. I was inspired to write this rhyme:

Don't care about them crashes or freezes,
Long as I got my plastic Jesus,
Sitting atop my stack of SKBs,
He don't slip, and he don't slide,
Cause his ass is magnetized,
Sitting atop my stack of SKBs.

Thank You Very Much,Please Stay Seated,

_________________
Jimmy V.

[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-03-27 10:49 ]

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:11 am

On 2006-03-27 09:13, Shayne White wrote:
Yes, changing Scope projects and then closing Sonar afterward will cause a crash no matter how many CPUs you have. It's an ASIO thing. I've done it lots of times accidentally.

If you're having any other lockups with dualcore, try the 3.1b drivers for Scope -- they seem to work better. Ali at CW Canada said I could pass them around. They're at:

http://www.shaynesworld.com/3.1b_drivers.zip

Good luck,

Shayne

_________________
Melodious Synth Radio
http://www.melodious-synth.com

[ This Message was edited by: Shayne White on 2006-03-27 09:14 ]

Thats really weird as I talked to 4 different uni CPU scope users and all of them could swap SFP projects as they pleased without freeze issues when closing, thus my conclusion that it was a dual CPU issue. This is obviously not a universal problem , or at least can't be nailed down to PC processor configuration.

Strange....

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:46 am

What's strange is thinking that a native app like sonar or cubase will be able to automatically update while running if you change an SFP project to one with a different asio i/o config. They're not designed to automatically update to live asio changes (including 'now you see me, now you don't during SFP project changes). They scan for this config on application boot, not live. It's something that has to be accepted as common sense like the start up order of digitally synced devices.

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:39 pm

Possibly you might have stumbled onto why I am seeing freezes now but not before. I never change my ASIO I/O configuration but between installs of Windows ( yes I use a legit up to date XP version)I might have different "flavours" of ASIO drivers loaded. I wonder if all the projects swapped during Sonar being open had the exact same ASIO drivers loaded and the same configuration of I/O, would it still freeze on close? I suspect not as the apps mapping will be the same when it tries to release the ASIO driver. Things to test....I'll get back to you.

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:01 pm

Bingo!!
If you have the same setup, mixer, hardware and ASIO I/O in 2 projects you can open and close them all day long without lockup while the sequencer is open.

I reinstalled XP recently and had to setup my default drivers and such. I used a different ASIO dest than what was in my saved project files, thus the complete meltdown when Sonar tried to release them.