Pulsar 1 & Windows XP & Cubase SX 3 seems instable

BasB · Post by **BasB** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:56 pm

Hi there,

I'm using the old Pulsar 1 card with Scope 4 software running under Windows XP. The combination with Cubase SX 3 makes my computer (Pentium IV 3.2 GHz) freeze at random moments. Does anyone have an idea how I can fix this?

Post by **Guest** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:03 pm

more info about your system

a. complete system specs.
b. IRQ allocation for Pulsar/Video and other shared devices.
c. is XP tweaked for Audio.
etc....

BasB · Post by **BasB** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:07 am

I found out that the problem also occurs without Cubase SX, so that isn't the problem. I mean by freezing, that the computer doesn't respond to anything anymore, I have to reboot the hard way.

I don't know what you mean by "IRQ allocation for Pulsar". Do you mean the virtual devices which are loaded on the pulsarcard? The only things I'm running are in- and outputs (wave- and asiodrivers) and a mixer.

With a hardwarescanning tool I found the following hardwareitems in my computer:

GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz Processor 3200 MHz
1024 MB RAM
Phoenix Technologies, LTD Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 Videocard
1394-netwerkcard Netwerkcard
VIA Rhine III Fast Ethernet Adapter Netwerkcard
WAN-miniport (PPPOE) Netwerkcard
C-Media High Definition Audio Device soundcard
Creamware Pulsar soundcard
MEDION (7134) WDM Video Capture soundcard
MEDION TV-TUNER 7134 MK2/3 soundcard
Microsoft Kernel acoustic echo-reducing soundcard
Microsoft Kernel DLS-synthesizer soundcard
Microsoft Kernel DRM-audiodecoder soundcard
Microsoft Kernel GS Wavetable-synthesizer soundcard
Microsoft Kernel Wave-audiomixer soundcard
Microsoft Kernel-audiosplitsing soundcard
Microsoft Kernel-systeemaudio soundcard
driver Microsoft WINMM WDM-audiocompatibility soundcard
Unimodem Half-Duplex-audioapparaat soundcard
Generic CF Card CF USB Device harddisk
Generic MS Card MS USB Device harddisk
Generic SD Card MMC/SD USB Device harddisk
Generic SM/XD Card SM USB Device harddisk
WDC WD2500JD-22HBB0 harddisk
IDE DVD-ROM 16X CD-rom
PIONEER DVD RW DVR-108 CD-rom
C: BOOT partition 117 GB (NTFS)
D: BACKUP partition 114 GB (NTFS)
E: RECOVER partition 2 GB (FAT32)
Plug en Play-monitor monitor
Agere Systems PCI Soft Modem Modem

The twaeking for audio part is stopping most of the services which are running on XP? Does taht give stablityproblems than?

Hope you can help...

Post by **garyb** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:09 am

go to start/prograams/accessories/system tools/system information/hardware resources/conflicts-sharing.
what if anything is sharing an irq with the scope card?

also, is midi connected? if so, insert the midi monitor(in the midi menu in the routing window) into your project connect it to your midi source for the card(ps, luna, pulsar or scope) and read the midi stream. do you see active sensing? if so, you must turn active sensing off in your controller keyboard and/or use the midi filter to remove it from the stream.

BasB · Post by **BasB** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:33 pm

I tried all that, but still sometimes my computer freezes. It could be a midi problem, because when I disconnect my masterkeyboard (which always is sending midiclockevents) it seems to be stable (it's always difficult to be sure).

I do have Cubase SX3 running with a few vst-instruments, but because the crashes also occured when Cubase was't running, I concluded that the problem isn't Cubase.

I already disabled Hyperthreading and Plug&Play, but that didn't do much either.

Any ideas?

[ This Message was edited by: BasB on 2005-08-06 13:35 ]

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:23 pm

In the system panel, I would disable the 2 Medion components, the Cmedia sound card & the pci modem for a start. Start Cubase and check if it's any better.
A good troubleshooting method is to reduce the active components (the one not marked by a red cross on the system panel) to the bare minimun.
I'm sure you have some bad Irq sharing with that many cards you have.
Tv cards can be problematic in a daw sometimes as well.

If your pc still does random boot with the bare minimum, It is very often because of a defective ram module. Assuming you have two 512M sticks, try to test with either stick in. You could also run Memtest under dos.

[ This Message was edited by: Bifop on 2005-08-06 15:24 ]

Post by **garyb** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:10 pm

as i already said:

also, is midi connected? if so, insert the midi monitor(in the midi menu in the routing window) into your project connect it to your midi source for the card(ps, luna, pulsar or scope) and read the midi stream. do you see active sensing? if so, you must turn active sensing off in your controller keyboard and/or use the midi filter to remove it from the stream.

BasB · Post by **BasB** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:37 am

I think I found the problem, the pulsar midi source is connected to the sequencer destination. When I disable all midi clock events from the masterkeyboard (disabling active sensing does NOT help) my computer seems stable.

Also disconnecting pulsar midi source vs. sequencer destination does help (but makes the system useless). Why does this give stablility-problems, does anyone know?

Post by **garyb** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:59 am

if you have 2 midi clock sources, you'll get a freeze. disabling midi clock and the echoing of midi clock will definitely help. i'd filter active sensing as well, for good measure. looks like you found the gremlin, or i hope so.....

cubase especially, but all sequencers will freeze when that info is sent to them. it is suspected that that info fills midi buffers leading to an overrun and freeze. it's almostr certainly related to your midi controller. in rare cases, an external midi interface(usb usually)to send controller data to the sequencer is the solution. you may need to use an external filter to get reliable operation with the scope interface, but this is rare. the midi filter in scope and/or turning active sensing and clock off in the controller should do the job.

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-08-07 12:05 ]

BasB · Post by **BasB** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:52 am

I'm reopening this topic because the problem is still there. Now my computer doesn’t freeze at random moments, but the freezes occur (sometimes) when I trigger a midi-note (in combination with a VST-instrument). When cubase is triggering these notes it's all ok, so it's a midi-trigger-problem. Midi-clock-data and active sensing is turned off, but this still very frustrating. Help!

psionic · Post by **psionic** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:14 am

[quote]
On 2005-10-06 09:52, BasB wrote:
I'm reopening this topic because the problem is still there.

OK, I have Luna 2 + Scope 4.0 - same problem. I overheard somewhere that this is an intel 865PE northbridge problem(?) On my older comp with (as they say crappy) sis 9xx chipset it works fine. Same software installed, same pheripherials... So, it seems that only explanation of this problem might be the chipset on MoBo. I even changed my Asus p4p800-x (i865PE) for Gainward (i865PE), but the problem remains. I don't have this problem when using a different midi port ( usb midi on Korg Kontrol49 ). This way I can't control Luna's synths, but if I route MIDI from CuBase to Creamware Midi In, it works ok.Seems like the midi cable is not ok, but I tried 2 diferent cables. Maybie the midi controler on board has blown? But there are to many users on this board having the same problem... And why is working good on my other comp? Maybie it is a job for Mulder and Scally.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:34 pm

i use the intel d865perl a LOT. there is no 865 chipset problem that i've seen after 10 or so motherboards...

BasB · Post by **BasB** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:54 pm

I solved my problem: I bought an USB-midi-interface and use that instead...

valis · Post by **valis** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Its quite likely the problem WAS active sensing. Having active sensing and midi clock active at the same time probably made it worse, but even when disabling the midi clock info you still got lockups. I say this because Active Sensing has been an issue for some time, and to be quite honest its really only meant for live situations to avoid a hanging note when your (would have been hardware) sequencer crashes.

Mexxx · Post by **Mexxx** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:22 am

Hello BasB,

i have the same problem with midi...
which masterkeyboard do u have and which usb interface have you bought?

BasB · Post by **BasB** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:53 am

I turned active sensing off, midi clock data off, I turned everything off. Nothing helped.

I'm using a Roland XP 80 and a Yamaha p 80 as masterkeyboards and a Midi Mate USB midicontroler (which costs about 30 Euro's and saves you a lot of headaches). I do now what I do best: making music again...

[ This Message was edited by: BasB on 2005-12-11 07:59 ]

Mexxx · Post by **Mexxx** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:48 am

i am using the roland xp 50 and have the similar computer

so i will buy a midi-interface too, if you say this solve the problem.

it would be great to make music again.

[ This Message was edited by: Mexxx on 2005-12-11 09:51 ]

psionic · Post by **psionic** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:14 pm

I have found what's wrong: ANYTHING going through "Sequencer Midi Dest" causes hang-ups, even a small "Pulsar Keyboard" connected to "Sequencer Midi Dest". After a time playing it causes the problem, even without sequencer software (cubaseSX). Active Sense, clock, anything, after a while - freezes the comp. I tried very unusual interconnections avoiding "seq midi dest" including connecting midi source to mixers, softsynths, etc, and starting CubaseSX, importing midi song, then setting midi out of nuendo to midi in of luna... Every possible combination with loopbacks, feedbacks and it works fine. Adding a seq midi dest in the project, freezes almost instantly ( because of fast rate of midi traffic trough it ). So routing midi information trough "seq midi dest" causes freeze. Routing actual midi keyboard on internal softsynths works fine -

Try to start Cubase, import midi file, set midi in to "not connected", and midi out to "Creamware in/out". In Scope, connect sequencer midi source to sequencer midi dest ( note that there is no loopback, because none of the midi-in channels are connected trough Cubase. Only midi data from file is sent from Cubase to Scope ) See if freezes.
If so, then we found a bug in driver wich hasn't been updated since 2002. Even in scope 4, the core wdm driver is dated 2002.

You can try anything else similar using hardware midi in and out, making loops with keyboard's midi, putting different asio drivers in two applications if you have 2 soundcards ( scope and audigy for example ), and it will work fine.

Post by **garyb** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:33 pm

something ELSE in your system. there are no midi problems here on a large number of computers. period. if an external interface works, great. if you have an up to date bios and the other drivers(like video) are also up to date and windows is installed correctly, it MUST work or you have a(hidden) serious hardware problem...

psionic · Post by **psionic** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:12 am

I see your point of view... But I am a computer techie. I work in several sound studios, and my job is solving hardware and software problems.I have a long list of success stories behind me. This problem with the scope arrised when we have upgraded our DAW.

I thought that the problem was with the new DAW, not the scope. But then I saw a lot of users with similar problem. I tried to see what components were they having. I concluded that problem was 865PE chipset. But GaryB told me that his Scope works on 865. Another match was NVidia GForce 6600. I didn't see someone with ATi and this problem. I will try to change graphic card, but...

But...If it was a hardware error then it would crash always when using ( addressing ) Scope. Hardware ins and outs including midi are working ( with midi keyb sending active sensing and midi clock ). When they are routed to software using workarounds avoiding seq dest module - they are working. The problem is seq midi dest. Try it yourself with app described in my previous post. If it is not a case, Then something else is roblem.

To avoid confusion: My Scope works fine with my older computer, but not with the new.Specific component causes this. There are no shared IRQs, memory overlappings etc... Everything is updated...No overclocking...Simply, something in comp doesn't like SCOPE! I must find out what and remove it!

Intel Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz 1MB / 800MHZ FSB s478
Gainward mobo with i865PE s478 AGP
Gainward Nvidia 6600GT 128 DDR3 AGP
Maxtor 160 GB x2
Samsung DDR pc3200 512 x 2
Everything else (modem, second audio...) is removed