Live Spacewalk

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:56 pm

Darkrezin, ever wonder why so many threads you post in are usually just full of the same few conspiracy theory zealots ?

It's because you're totally incapable of rational debate.

Anyone who doesn't believe your outlandish theories is either naive, a government pawn, or part of the "unthinking masses" of the population whom you seem to regard with such contempt.

I generally have faith in the basic intelligence of people to recognise good and evil and also believe most western democratic governments are, generally, quite benign and open. Not perfect - far from it - but among the best examples of government in the world today.

I'm happy to be shown examples of better government. In fact I'm very keen to know which governments and societies you regard as superior. Please enlighten me.

As for being searched, well, that'd be damn annoying. I'm regularly pulled over at airports for some extra inspection myself.

On the other hand you've consistently supported the extremists over the British government in every thread you've posted in. In that respect I think the security services have profiled you exceptionally well.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:12 pm

On 2005-08-04 19:06, darkrezin wrote:
While not for one second equating myself to their greatness, I suppose by your rationale people like Mohandas Ghandi and Martin Luther King were self-righteous zealots who should have been more 'generous' to their oppressors?

I was referring to your extremist views and your claim that they are 'common sense'.

Remember that common sense means: "good practical sense in everyday affirs; general feeling of mankind or community".

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:01 am

Oh boy...well I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt until you started talking about accurate profiling and implying that I support terrorists. To this kind of insult I cannot do anything but call you out for what you are.

You're an ignorant idiot who can't read

Go back and read my last posts again, you silly, silly man.

I've never used such strong language against anyone on a forum, but damn man... you have a way of overstepping the mark when it comes to personal stuff. To anyone who thinks I'm being harsh on Spirit, please note that he has accused me of supporting terrorists.

I CHALLENGE anyone to find a single post by me in which I support terrorists.

And if you make gratuitously right-wing, ignorant statements in an off-topic forum, be prepared to get called on them. Otherwise, simply don't post.

I'm totally prepared to argue my points, but well basically I've not heard one shred of rational debate from you either, apart from:

"tell me what government is better"
- with this attitude mankind will NEVER progress... once again I call to your attention people like Gandhi and MLK who tried to do something rather than keeping their heads down and being obedient citizens.

"your views are extremist"
- because I suspect the US and UK Governments of underhand dealings and murder? Dude did you ever read any of the links I've posted, or are you that much of a blinkered sheep that you refuse to do so? Check out some stuff on depleted uranium ammo being used in the Gulf War, Bosnia and currently Iraq. Have a look at http://electroniciraq.net/news/ for what really is happening in Iraq. I don't expect you to though because you really are an ignorant fool

So here's a concise excerpt for you:

"Our governments dismiss any connection between the London bombings and the war in Iraq. Such attacks, they say, predate 2003. But Iraq was first invaded in 1991, not 2003. Then a decade of sanctions against that country killed 1 million Iraqis. Over the same period, unwavering support for Israel has resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent Palestinians. Tens of thousands have been slaughtered by U.S. and British forces in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001."

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:34 am

On 2005-08-05 05:01, darkrezin wrote:
...And if you make gratuitously right-wing, ignorant statements in an off-topic forum, be prepared to get called on them. Otherwise, simply don't post...

I understand your point of anger because you're getting personally (and unwillingly) involved in what's going on in London - and we agree on the ammo facts (but possibly draw different conclusions)

yet you put yourself in the exact same position as those governments you accuse with a statement like the one above.
this is not a liberal, let alone tolerant position.

if you feel that a so-called right wing position s*cks, it's up to you - it's your own personal judgement and even if you assume that a majority of reader shares this opinion, it doesn't justify it or make it the truth.
Not even in the case that you are right (in the sense of correct).

otherwise you'd be undemocratic yourself, or a mirrored image of those you accuse.

imho that's all that Spirit wanted to express

cheers, Tom

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:16 am

Sure astro, if that was what he was doing that would be fine. The thing that annoyed me is that this guy twists anything he cannot comprehend/deal with/fit into his tiny world-view into typical reactionary BS... a prime example of this is accusing me of supporting terrorists, when I have made it clear time after time that I find the terrorists as sick and cowardly as our governments.

Spirit implied that the profiling for me getting searched was accurate. This is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Police here are stopping, searching and interrogating ANYONE who looks a bit foreign. What kind of 'profiling' is that?? Give me a f**king break man.

It's such ignorance that I have a problem with, and sure I have a problem with right-wing viewpoints - I regard right-wingers as people who love to see the enslavement and suffering of other people, thinking it is a good thing. I will challenge anyone who makes these viewpoints to back them up and try and justify them. Not out of aggression, but just as a challenge to see if they know what they're talking about instead of just spouting BS.

In short, what I'm saying is don't just regurgitate the propoganda you hear on the news... if you're going to say what's going on in the world is right, then give me some proper arguments, instead of trying to imply that people whose viewpoints you don't like are supporting terrorism.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:21 am

Also, my anger on this topic is not about me getting searched. I don't honestly give a f**k about that, as I have nothing to hide.

My main concern is tens of thousands of people getting butchered and subjected to radiation and chemical poisoning by allied troops in Iraq, while ignorant consumer fools around the world cheering on the USA because they got rid of that evil dictator Saddam.

skwawks · Post by **skwawks** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:48 am

It's the SHUTTLE stupid ....it's the SHUTTLE stupid....it's the SHUTTLE stupid ...am I getting through here mate ...it's not ignorant unfeeling right wing politics pushed by people far less worthy than your so noble self ...its the fucking SHUTTLE .
As far as being shot by pigs what can I say ...if you are an illegal immigrant living in a highly charged atmosphere and exiting a building being watched then probably the worst thing you can do is run when challenged , the best thing to do would be to stand still and accept that your times up and you are going home ,dont you think ,or do you think that everyone has a right to do whatever they want whenever they want whereever they want . There's a word for that ...it's called the JUNGLE ....we dont live in the jungle in our society . It's the reason that our society works better than the society you come from and gee whiz if thats SO politically incorrect that you cant stand it why dont you go home and teach your brothers how to build a great society all of your own because MOST of us like our society pretty much the way it is ...more or less ..give or take a bit ...you know what I mean...nudge nudge ...wink wink

skwawks · Post by **skwawks** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:48 am

It's the SHUTTLE stupid ....it's the SHUTTLE stupid....it's the SHUTTLE stupid ...am I getting through here mate ...it's not ignorant unfeeling right wing politics pushed by people far less worthy than your so noble self ...its the fucking SHUTTLE .
As far as being shot by pigs what can I say ...if you are an illegal immigrant living in a highly charged atmosphere and exiting a building being watched then probably the worst thing you can do is run when challenged , the best thing to do would be to stand still and accept that your times up and you are going home ,dont you think ,or do you think that everyone has a right to do whatever they want whenever they want whereever they want . There's a word for that ...it's called the JUNGLE ....we dont live in the jungle in our society . It's the reason that our society works better than the society you come from and gee whiz if thats SO politically incorrect that you cant stand it why dont you go home and teach your brothers how to build a great society all of your own because MOST of us like our society pretty much the way it is ...more or less ..give or take a bit ...you know what I mean...nudge nudge ...wink wink

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:57 am

On 2005-08-05 06:48, skwawks wrote:
...There's a word for that ...it's called the JUNGLE ....we dont live in the jungle in our society . It's the reason that our society works better than the society you come from and gee whiz if thats SO politically incorrect that you cant stand it why dont you go home and teach your brothers how to build a great society all of your own because MOST of us like our society pretty much the way it is ...more or less ..give or take a bit ...you know what I mean...nudge nudge ...wink wink

You're a *racist*, assuming way too much. You make Enoch Powell look like a wise and deep-thinking man

I am not even muslim, and I have lived in the UK pretty much all my life. I do not hate it here, I have many English friends.

I simply have seen what's happening with the government here and it's not good. It's my democratic right, as a citizen of my country (I pay taxes and contribute to the economy too!), to speak out.

I made my points, nothing more to say

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:12 am

Crikey, this thread has gone right off the rails

I must say that I sympathise with darkrezin's point-of-view more than Spirit's; it is important to consider what underpins our relatively prosperous societies and to acknowledge that, untimately, we all must assume some responsibility for that.

if you are an illegal immigrant living in a highly charged atmosphere and exiting a building being watched then probably the worst thing you can do is run when challenged

Consider the Brazilian man who was shot dead on the underground system in London recently.

He was not here illegally - all his paperwork was in-order. What would you do if four massive blokes (note: NOT in uniform) started running after you, shouting at you in a language that perhaps you could not fully understand? The police gave no indication that they were officers of the law. He was suspected of being a suicide bomber because he weas wearing a "puffa" jacket in warm weather. Warm for us, that is; he's Brazilian so for him the weather is probably pretty chilly.

So, for wearing the "wrong clothes" he got shot in the head seven times. I find it staggering that the police force have defended their actions under these circumstances.

Makes me embarassed to be an Englishman in this country at present

Royston

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:24 pm

Very few police carry guns in the UK. I wish we would take the guns away from our cops. The police here have a really bad attitude. They love to imtimidate people. The type of person who goes for that job is generally someone who gets pleasure out of making someone else feel smaller than they are.

skwawks · Post by **skwawks** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:40 pm

Yes I am racist ....why wouldn't I be racist ...do you know anyone who isn't racist ,jeez I even look sideways at people from Tasmania. The first overt racism I ever came across was from an american black because guess what, he was racist.
I'm glad you didn't call me hateful though .
As reported here in oz that unfortunate young man was not in possesion of legal status and furthermore if someone of his age wasn't able to tell what 4 "pigs" look like at a time when London was full to the brim of such people then it makes you wonder doesn't it ,cos I dont know about you but I CAN tell and I reckon a fair number of the people in that building could tell too.
Look I dont want to speak ill of the dead o.k. but there was more than one side to that issue and it needs to be acknowledged even as everybody adopts the usual position ,dont you think...hmm...?
not long to de-orbit

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:05 am

Ah yes the shuttle, how could I forget...

[/me turns on TV and veges out...]

I didn't mean to be aggressive, I tried to call you out for the racism as nicely as possible. I actually know for a fact that anyone can be racist, whether they're black/brown/white/whatever.

Well, I have encountered a lot of racism in my life, and Skwawks, the comment you made fits right in there with classic examples of closet racism (i.e. polite and nice to you on the exterior, but when things start to get a bit tricky, the true colours start to come out...)

Don't worry though, there's a lot of people like you, so don't feel alone. Rejoice in your brotherhood of ignorance.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:20 am

I'd just like to add that the area in which the Brazilian man lived (Stockwell/Brixton) is not the nicest area in London.. street crime can be very common, as is gang-related violence... people in drug gangs often get identities mixed up when they need to kill someone. If I was chased by a bunch of large men with guns (they were NOT in uniform) there i would RUN LIKE HELL.

Also, if they really thought he was a suicide bomber, why the f**k did they let him get on a bus all the way to the station? Why the hell is no-one asking these rather obvious questions?

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:35 am

Warm for us, that is; he's Brazilian so for him the weather is probably pretty chilly.

Absolutely. Another example of this kind of thing I've seen is during a holiday to India during winter - winter there is around 25 degrees C... pretty damn hot for someone raised in Grey Britain but I saw people there wrapping up in coats and scarves...

A friend of mine got accosted by pigs last week because he was wearing a RAINCOAT. Well it's been pretty warm in London recently but this is London... it *rains*.

Post by **garyb** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:59 am

if they hate our freedom and mean to eliminate it through terror, then they have won. the brazillian was wearing a windbreaker, not a puffy coat and when he was shot, he was point blank with the shooters, this was in official reports(the news said heavy coat and running). if the government has nothing to hide, why all the lies? as an american, i am SOVERIEGN, innocent until proven guilty. i want the cameras and searches to be on ALL levels of government first, foremost and ONLY. i don't work for them. they work for me. i have nothing to prove or defend if there have been no legitimate complaints from my fellows stating that i have done them harm. do not terrorize me by taking away my liberty to save it from those that you have nurtured(there IS a plan to economics and government that extends beyond any person, time or ideology or there would be no "progress"..).

as to the shuttle, fascinating. certainly a cover for other goings on, but fascinating, still. this drama was a bit of a farce, but nasa has some face to save. they need to show how careful they are these days(as though riding an antiquated ship like that could be safe! the computers that run it are not as sophisicated as a gameboy. the russians are worse, they use vacuum tubes and hand valves....). you gotta be impressed with those willing to ride the things, they must be crazy like submariners, probably hypnotized and drugged

. the "repair" looked like the imaginary games that we used to play pretending to be spacemen back about 1971. i'm glad that the thing should be safe, though......

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:31 am

To say that America is a free country is not true. There are countless "moral" restrictions. Why can't I buy rum on Sunday? Hey I have a good idea. Let's make it against the law to buy a bible on Tuesdays!

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:54 am

garyb wrote:
the computers that run it are not as sophisicated as a gameboy. the russians are worse, they use vacuum tubes and hand valves....).

There's a good technical reason for this; modern processors simply aren't "rugged" enough to cope with the physical demands/radiation etc. which are encountered in a space mission. I believe that the 8086 is used in the space shuttle.

Royston

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:12 am

garyb wrote:
the brazillian was wearing a windbreaker, not a puffy coat and when he was shot, he was point blank with the shooters, this was in official reports(the news said heavy coat and running).

It's hard to get a clear picture...

washington post: The man who emerged Friday morning was wearing a padded, blue-fleeced jacked

Ise.co.uk: The coat he was using was a jean [denim] jacket. It wasn't a bulky jacket

rediff.com: and was wearing a heavy padded coat

softpedia: and wearing a heavy jacket

foxnews: Witnesses said he was wearing a heavy padded coat

So, heavy padded coat or denim jacket?

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:17 am

Any notions of truth are now meaningless, anything can be drowned in disinformation.