MIDI Channel output Cycler

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:04 am

In order to make this baby bug free,
I realy need some ideas/sollutions to some problems.

The first and most difficult problem is how to make sure that a midi noteon's channel matches it's brother , the midinote off.

The way it works now is that two counters count seperatly the noteon and noteoff.
That way chords will never work.
Also an overlapping note will cause the previous noteon to hang cause it's noteoff is changed to a different channel at the time of the following note on.
And thats the problem.

Single notes go ok.
Now how do we remember the noteon channel so it's noteoff gets the same channel?
I was thinking of writing a sort of map in an Array. But I have not found out jet how to write a value in an array. Only read values out of a static array (table).
If you have an idea please tell me?

cheers,
Casper

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:30 am

What if you:
First split the chord,
Send each note to outputs through the cycler,
The note on and off should be inherent to the complete note message, no?

Maybe it would be easier to have the outputs all on the same channel. It would only be a question of assigning synths to the separate MIDI outs. After all, the synths don't care what channel they are on. We could always put a channel changer if we need separate MIDI channels

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:58 am

Hmmm....no channel changer plugin for us lowly SFP users...hehe

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:11 am

That might be a great idea but,
About the noteon /off spec.

this is a note on
byte 1 -> 144 (channel 1)
byte 2 -> 60 (note)
byte 3 -> 100 (velo)

this is the end of the message .
the note off is a seperate and single event too.
byte 1 -> 128 (or 144 with velo 0)
byte 2 -> 60
byte 3 -> 100
Because they are seperate I have to somehow match the noteon with the noteoff.

ok , any breaktroughs will be reported here.
cheers,
Casper

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:36 pm

What about working with the "reject" principle?

If number of notes < 1, reject the others and repeat the same operation until there is only one note left.

Make sense?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2005-08-01 14:46 ]</font>

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:55 pm

So that the channel changes only when there is no key pressed ?

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:13 pm

Actually you may have hit upon it!

No key pressed means note off, right?

So, what I am saying is maybe there should be a chord splitter first (maybe using that rejection protocol)and then each individual note would go through the cycler where the channel changes occur when Note Off messages are percieved.

Hey I'm just shooting in the dark, making suggestions. I may be totally wrong.

Let me know if you want me to shut up

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:43 pm

no keys pressed means that every note that was set to the "on" status , are set to the off status. You can imagine that you press a key on the keybord , and the hold that one. Then pressing a second key and releasing the first one after that event. So a channel change on the moment the second key is pressed also changes the first note off message.

I'm gonna be off this tonight.
Gotta do other stuff.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:18 pm

I found this link that may help if you have an Atari or you know someone who does:

http://tamw.atari-users.net/msg.htm

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:04 pm

Well, it is a realy nice link , but it doesn't quite solve our SDK related problem.
I do own an Atari Falcon , so maybe i'd give it a try anywayz.

We need a messagebuilder , simple and clear.
set statusbyte, set databyte1 , set databyte2 and bang , message out.
I fully understand how midi works. It's the SDK that's hiding things from me

cheers,
Casper

Post by **hubird** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:54 pm

why not forget the chords :-0
start making it function for linear mono midi sequences, it would be great on its own.
doubling this proces allows chord thinking anyway

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:34 am

On 2005-08-01 08:58, paulrmartin wrote:
Hmmm....no channel changer plugin for us lowly SFP users...hehe

Not true...

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... orum=16&11

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 am

Oh dear, it's the same module i'm using to let it all cycle

But rest asure , you'l get stuck notes with this one too. so single noteon/off messages only.

We'd love to see you make it cycle Alfonso.

cheers,
Casper

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:21 am

On 2005-08-02 02:25, Casper wrote:
Oh dear, it's the same module i'm using to let it all cycle

But rest asure , you'l get stuck notes with this one too. so single noteon/off messages only.

We'd love to see you make it cycle Alfonso.

cheers,
Casper

I've a bit left SDK for now, I should also fix a couple of modules I posted that have problems with polyphony....
I'm a bit busy with a project of electronic-acoustic music, I have a gig the 7th of august, after that I should start to study SDK again, because I'm not very skilled yet...but with some brain activity it should be possible to find solutions...

Anyway, a MIDI cycler is not something that I would need, Cubase permits all of that without any resource consumption and with more control and possible variations, and even in that case it's not an effect that I would use often, but solving a problem can be stimulating, so if I have a good idea about it I will share it for sure....at the moment I have no idea on how to keep note offs tied to the previous note on message in a poly situation...

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:01 am

You guys are great!

I'd really like to have this module in Scope since switching to Cubase is not an option for me(Spent too long learning Logic).

Is there an SDK manual I could look at to try and help?

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:51 am

On 2005-08-02 07:01, paulrmartin wrote:
You guys are great!

I'd really like to have this module in Scope since switching to Cubase is not an option for me(Spent too long learning Logic).

Is there an SDK manual I could look at to try and help?

You mean you can't assign different midi channels to each event of a midi track in Logic?

SDK manual? wazzat?

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:58 am

Ok, I did the research after my last post and saw there is no manual.

Of course I can assign whatever channel I want in Logic. I want to have a module that will do this automatically without having to change each and every note by hand.

Once I get the outputs recorded it will be just a matter of assigning synths/samplers to them. Zappa had instant orchestrations in his Synclavier this way because the cycler was integrated.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:02 am

"Cubase permits all of that without any resource consumption "

I think cubase e.g. the miditransformer lacks a save mechanism too in case of changing a value (note).

I'm gonna do some work on a different device. Cause I'm a little bored with this problem now. But we'l get it in due time.
Until after the 7th then Alfonso and good succes with the gig.

cheers

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:05 am

Thx!

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:09 am

I really hope you guys are still up to my challenge.

This would be a dream-come-true for me