scope pro 15dsp and defeater key

tripstation · Post by **tripstation** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:23 am

Hi,
Is it possible to use a 15DSP card as a dsp card like you can with a 6 DSP card with no I/O.
regards,
Tripstation

AudioDan · Post by **AudioDan** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:30 am

Hi tripstation,
Yes, it's very possible to do that. You need to find your 'IOEnabler.exe' file which I think is in:
c:ScopeAppBin (I always make a shortcut to it in my start menu)
and once running the IO enabler, choose the "...NO IO's.." option.

I fear you will have troubles with it though. I have exactly the same motherboard, slightly slower CPU's (2x 2.8GHz) Nuendo 2 and I've been getting fatal error messages from XTC which have been confirmed by Creamware as being caused by Dual CPU. I have also run my own tests limiting Nuendo's (and hence XTC's) access to only one CPU and the error message doesn't show.
I hope it works for you, if it does let me know, 'cause I'm really keen to get my system working, but I've been puzzling over this for months, have made posts a c ouple of times about the problem, and finally with help from my local distributor whom I am friends with, got the sad news from Creamware that 'they do not recommend dual CPU systems of any kind with their products'.
I find that it works fine in SFP mode but for me that mode is not practical with the kind of work I do. (That is, I like to be able to automate....something which many the SFP enthusiasts who often slag down XTC mode seem to overlook. Live automating SFP is very time consuming and trickey and somehow I just don't find it practical to volume automate from Nuendo in front compressors in the SFP....I can't quite figure out why.....?)

Anyway, I'm back from my rant. You'll know when you get the problem that I'm having cause it'll look something like this:

"ScopeDriverIoctl (1908888) returned error code -99"

It will either happen when you add too many XTC plugins into the session, you change your output routing in VST Connections, or when you boot the session up having saved it. Especially if it has to switch sample rate.
I assume you've already turned off Hyperthreading in the BIOS. (My Nuendo couldn't handle two CPU's hyperthreading 'cause obviously it sees them as four CPU's and it doesn't like that. Playback cursor goes along but no sound and no light-show.

Anyway, as I say, please let me know if you have any more luck than me 'cause I'd love your help if you do. Incidently, how do you find the UAD-1? I'm thinking of switching and that was my next choice.

Oh....and what audio interface would you be using if not the Creamware IO?

Cheers,

AudioDan

tripstation · Post by **tripstation** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:31 pm

Hi AudioDan,
I am running in XTC mode at the mo using the Creamware 24 ADAT I/O. Also I use Studio Connections in Nuendo 3.
I don't have any problems.
It's very stable.
I do not change sample rate though.
I would like to use a couple of Yamaha I88X's with an 01V96 (mlaned) and a Motief ES(mlaned)
That would give me 32 mixing I/0's plus the scope running as a DSP card.
The UAD-1 is great for Pultec and 1176 and whatever you like.
I want to use the creamware for synths, reverbs and compressors at the same time as all the other stuff with the MLAN doing the ASIO stuff.
Do you get those error messages in XTC mode with I/O enabled?
I'm just gonna switch off I/O and see If I get errors like you.
regards,
Tripstation.

tripstation · Post by **tripstation** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:44 pm

Hi AudioDan,
no I don't get that error.
I get a can't open multimedia device error.
I click on ok twice and it goes.
I have ticked my creamware card has no IO's.
everything else is unticked.
I have no other sound cards in the pc at the mo.
Is this all I have to do.
Can I leave the ADAT I/O plugged in?
If I take it out do I need the defeater plug?
If I leave it in do I not need the defeater plug.
I will try tomorrow with a dspfacory to see if I can use the I/O on that.
regards,
Tripstation

AudioDan · Post by **AudioDan** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:52 pm

Hi tripstation,
I get the error message regardless of which mode I run in - Creamware I/O's or not - but it only happens when I have a session that really loads up the DSP on the Creamware cards. If the DSP load is less than around 50% then it seem to work fine.
I try not to change the sample-rate either but sometimes Nuendo defaults back to 44.1k and then when my session boots it has to change to 48k...you know the deal....that's often when I get the error message (as I say though....on a bigger session that uses a lot of DSP).
I've heard only bad reports so far about mLan on PC so be careful. You probably know more about it than I do, and I hear that the native integration of it into OSX Tiger has made it much more stable on Mac, but I just thought I should warn you. I was talking to a guy who is/was basically the face of Yamaha in Australia over the last year or so and who gets an endorsement and a hole lot of free Yamaha gear, and he said that mLan is terrible on his PC. He probably doen't know a lot about it though....he's just a singing teacher...

Thanks for your feedback on the UAD-1. It's looking better and better for me. Now all I need is some money......
Cheers,
AudioDan

[ This Message was edited by: AudioDan on 2005-07-20 15:54 ]

AudioDan · Post by **AudioDan** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:00 pm

Hi tripstation,
When you get the "Can't open mltimedia device" it's because you have no Audio Device in the system. Nuendo has to synchronise itself to some kind of ASIO-based audio driver. When the only audio device in the system is a non-ASIO-based sound card Nuendo will use the ASIO Mutimedia or the ASIO DirectX driver which it constructs as Nuendo is installed. If there is NO audio device in the sytem then Nuendo has nothing to synchronise to at all, so obviously you won't hear anything and it probably won't even play back...no meters at least.

Yes, you can leave the ADAT I/O plugged in. The I/O enabler just makes the XTC ASIO driver inactive so that Nuendo can't see it.

I don't know what you mean by "defeater plug" sorry...you'd better explain that to me.

Does the DSP Factory have good ASIO drivers? I would have imagined the the SCOPE had better drivers than the DSP Factory. Could be wrong....

Cheers,

AudioDan

[ This Message was edited by: AudioDan on 2005-07-20 18:02 ]

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:39 pm

defeater plug is a hardware I/O DISABLER as far as i know.

helps ppl who run XTC configure their card to another audio card, not sure though.
4

AudioDan · Post by **AudioDan** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:51 pm

OK so the "Defeater" (Thanks piddi) is the IOEnabler.exe that I mentioned in an ealier post. Hence, yes, you will need to use the "Defeater"...for some reason I thought it was a hardware thing the way that tripstation described it.

Cheers,

AudioDan

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:41 am

thats what i think too... :s

tripstation · Post by **tripstation** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:12 pm

HI guys,
Have tried it with the dspfactory as the I/O.
Got no sound.
no level in vst channel either.
Can one of you post your xtcproject please.
regards,
Tripstation.

narly · Post by **narly** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:39 pm

Maybe I misunderstand what you are doing, but it would be my guess that your XTCProject.pro should be essentially empty (void of I/O).

Your XTCProject would have no I/O modules (esp. ASIO), since Nuendo will gain ASIO via your DSP Factory driver... You'll need to ensure your XTCProject.pro is set correctly for samplerate and clock-source according to your physical setup, of course.

I don't have another ASIO compatible sound device to test this with, but will give it a shot in ASIO MME to test it myself .

tripstation · Post by **tripstation** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:04 pm

What should be in there then.
Can someone post a screenshot please.
I am only tesing with the DSPFacotry cause that is my spare sound card.
I want to try this stuff with mlan later.
regards,
Tripstation

AudioDan · Post by **AudioDan** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:49 pm

Hi tripstation,

Narly's pretty much knocked it on the head. When I tried running Nuendo with my VSL2020 and my 15DSP booster with no I/Os there is no real hint of XTC during the boot process of Nuendo. Because the Creamware device has no I/O's there is no need for the XTCProject.pro. The XTC Project only handles the number of ASIO channels and the routing of those channels, some ASIO Direct Monitoring functions and the "Merge" option. None of that is relevant when you're using another interface as your ASIO Source/Destination so I believe that XTCProject.pro is inactive in this mode.
You should try the DSP Factory without the Creamware card in the system to see if that's why you're getting no sound.
Other than that Im not to sure at this point, why it's not working.

Sorry I can't help you more than that.

Cheers,

AudioDan

tripstation · Post by **tripstation** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:44 am

Hi,
I have used the DSPFactory for years and know it v.well.
I do get sound in this config etc from say kontakt or something.
I get no sound when using a scope synth.
Could it be that the scope card is not receiving any midi in.
I have left the ADAT I/O connected to the scope.
Also I have ticked use XTC mode in my SFP XTC project.
regards,
Tripstation

narly · Post by **narly** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:20 am

I just tested this type of setup using my built-in C-Media sound device in DirectX mode. Worked as follows:

XTCProject.pro with no devices or I/O - just the correct settings in Samplerate (and XTC enabled, of course).

Cubase SX 3 with the ASIO DirectX Driver (set to include only the C-Media channels). You will be using your DSPf ASIO driver here, no doubt...

I was then able to load and get audio out from XTC synths. Note: I did have to remove and reload the synth from VSTi panel; I imagine this is due to the Cubase VST I/O setup having changed from my usual ASIO Scope-based XTC configuration.

It should be fairly easy to know if your XTC synths are receiving midi with the red "LED" on the synth interface or VSTi panel. I merely set a MIDI track to output to the plugin synth, with input from an external source or just using the track events.

It would be my guess (operative word is guess since I don't have exact setup as you) that if you have a working setup with your DSPf ASIO (and XTC disabled), that such a XTCproject.pro as I described and enabling XTC in Scope Settings will have things working. If you're already able to load the XTC Synths, then you're probably almost there. Remember that XTC mode w/ Cubase handles audio/MIDI I/O for your XTC VST/VSTi plugs without regard to I/O in your default XTCproject.

[ This Message was edited by: narly on 2005-07-23 12:05 ]

tripstation · Post by **tripstation** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:05 pm

Hi,
I have setup my mlan stuff now.
2 x I88x's
MY16-mLAN (in O1V96)
Yamaha Motif ES (waiting for mLan 16E card)
I have also got another Scope (15 DSP) card to go in as well.
I have got the mLAN stuff working.
It really rocks.
I gues I was lucky with the onboard firewire chip the TI one.
Anyway I still don't get any audio coming out the the scope synths.
Are you using a 15DSP card?.
I think the synths are receiving midi. I just get no sound.
any ideas?
regards,
James

[ This Message was edited by: tripstation on 2005-07-30 17:06 ]

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:21 am

Hi Trip,
I fear it doesn't and won't work...

I've spent a lot of time trying to get this working (with a 15 and a 6 dsp board)... No way. When I finally ended with a "working" solution, the audio was all clicky and glitchy as if no synchro was occuring beetween the CW and the other asio card...
Good luck.

narly · Post by **narly** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:21 pm

With all respect it can work (and does work - I've run a setup similar to this). Sounds like Bifop had a sync issue. Your Scope hardware clock needs to be slaved to the hardware you're using for ASIO I/O (or the same master clock as your ASIO I/O HW), otherwise you will get that kind of output

To confirm my claim, and to further test using ASIO compatible hardware for I/O this time, I dug out a Hoontech DSP 24 that I had and installed it to use as my I/O hardware. With my Scope hardware's clock slaved to the DSP24 via SPDIF optical, this configuration runs without a hitch.

Again, I can't speak about your setup with the DSPFactory, Trip, since I don't have that hardware and don't have to deal with it's drivers. I wish I knew more about your setup and what your indications are. I assume from your last post that you've verified MIDI channels, etc. to your Scope synth plugin's and that the VSTi mixer channel(s) for the synth(s) is still not indicating any output. I did have instances in doing this setup where changing ASIO driver setup or project timimg in Cubase when my Scope synths acted that way (no output in VSTi channel), but, as long as the settings I'd made were sane, a reload of Cubase was all that was required to have the Scope synths (and other plugin's) running again.

If I think of anything else to have you try, I'll jot it down here. Feel free to post any other observations for your setup. I have a feeling it's possible for your setup since I've done a similar setup here with the DSP24 card.

BTW; I use 3 x 6DSP Scope cards rather than a 14/15DSP card, but I don't think that would cause the difference in our success.

[ This Message was edited by: narly on 2005-07-31 14:12 ]

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:53 am

Narly, there are some points I don't get in your method...
To use the Creamware cards in XTC mode without I/O, you're supposed to REMOVE the I/O plate AND plug a DEFEATER KEY wich is a physical plug. How am I supposed to physically connect the Pulsar to the other souncard then ?
You seem to implie that you can let the physical I/O plate and get the audio to the other souncard just using the I/O ENABLER and connecting a digital source beetween them for synchro sake ?
I tried your method (you could have been onto something here...) but again, nothing but the infamous "XTC plugins not correctly installed"...
If I see it in action, I'll believe it, but now I really think this combination (CW card in XTC mode with an other soundcard asio I/0) is just an urban myth, except maybe for the XTC cards...

By the way, Tripstation is selling his two cards now...

narly · Post by **narly** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:30 am

No, I don't have a defeater key. So my setup (was) using my existing I/O plates still installed. I/O for Scope was not incorporated anywhere in setup other than for sync to my DSP24 card in XTCProject.pro.

Legend or not, I had it working.

Wonder why he's selling? Hmmm.... That's a shame.