Crackling noise from graphics

kaju · Post by **kaju** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:27 pm

I get clicks and crackles in audio output whenever there's colorful and fast graphics activity displayed on the monitor.
This happens especially with some Reaktor (4 or 5)beat boxes that have rhythmic graphics included. Both when using Reaktor as stand alone or as a VST instrument in Cubase SX3.
In Cubase also moving faders and other controls and mouse pointer (quickly) makes noises in audio output.

My system:
P4 2,8GHz, Intel D865PERL, 2GB PC3200DDR, Matrox G550 32Mb, LG 901 monitor, Windows Xp Home (ACPI and HT enabled) optimized for audio use, everything - I mean all - that is not used stripped out, Cubase SX3.0.2, Midex3 usb midi, CreamWare Luna (card+2496), Scope 4.0.

There's no IRQ sharing with Luna card, but Matrox is sharing IRQ16 with Usb port 24D2 where Midex3 is connected.
I have experimented with all possible combinations of the 6 usb ports available but the problem remains.
Only 2 usb ports are now enabled, one for Cubase dongle and the other for Midex3.

I'm not desperate but of course would like to have the system working flawlessly.

Could anybody help me?

kaju

Cochise · Post by **Cochise** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:34 am

Hello.

I don't think an IRQ shared between graphicard and midi interface could cause that kind of problem.

I don't know if this can help, but..
Try to move away all audio cables and devices from the CRT.
Try to place CW board in a slot far from GPU.

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:45 am

Might want to try one of those PCI Latency configuration programs, lower the graphics card's PCI latency and raise the soundcards latency. See if that affects the problem.

kaju · Post by **kaju** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:01 pm

Thank you for your answers.

I succeeded in getting a unique IRQ number for my Luna card, it's now in PCI slot 2, IRQ 22.
PCI slot 1 would also have been possible but maybe too near the Matrox G550 graphics card.

My audio cables and devices are not too near the CRT, I think.

I'm still keeping the ACPI and HT. The general opinion seems to be against them, but I think I haven't seen enough reasonable facts, not yet.
Music XP.net recommends the use of ACPI, Standard Pc only if there are IRQ problems.
I maybe wrong but I think Steinberg recommend
HT with Cubase SX3.

I briefly experimented without HT as well as with it. Didn't notice any difference.

The noise remains there.
It's definitely more pronounced with Reaktor "sound+graphics" instruments.

I'm open to suggestions. No panic, not yet...

kaju

Almost forgot:
These latency configuration programs. Could you tell me where I could find these and info about them?

[ This Message was edited by: kaju on 2005-06-17 13:04 ]

[ This Message was edited by: kaju on 2005-06-17 13:06 ]

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:00 pm

Basically, most graphics card manufacturers pump the PCI Latency of their cards to get better performance. PCI Latency is how much "time" each PCI device gets to broadcast and receive data over the PCI bus. Values of 32 and 64 are common, and it's something you can usually set in the BIOS, but most graphics card ignore this setting and will set their own. Values of 256 are common. So what happens, if this value is high and there is alot of graphics data travelling over the PCI bus, is that the audio card doesn't have enough time to service/send all its data over the PCI bus, and clicks/pops start happening.

If you adjust this PCI Latency value back to a more conservative value, the graphics card won't be taking as bandwidth on the PCI bus and it might help in eliminating the clicks/pops. You won't notice the difference unless you play 3D games, you might get a bit lower framerates, for standard applications you shouldn't notice any difference.

I think the utility I use is this one (at work, so I can't check):

http://194.71.11.70/pub/games/PC/guru3d ... u3d%5D.zip

This will let you check and adjust the PCI Latency of each device on the PCI bus. What you will want to do is look for you graphic card, and reduce its value so it matches the value of the other devices, usually 32 or 64. You can experiment with values, see if it affects your problem.

This value is reset each time you boot up, the configuration utility should have a "apply these settings at boot time" setting somewhere. You should still note down the original values just in case, so that you can go back.

okantah · Post by **okantah** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:44 pm

clicks and crackles in audio output.!
Did you install your mobo + video card drivers ? if not format your Harddrive from fresh & don't forget directX drivers.
cheers

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:10 pm

Lots of answers, but since you're using a Matrox g550 graphics card you shouldn't need to do any low level tweaking. Simply make sure that you're using recent XP drivers for the G550 (available here). Then in the tasktray icon for the Matrox you can find a settings panel, look for a setting to DISABLE busmastering. Should make any other PCI tweaks unnecessary.

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:48 pm

Oh yeah, what Valis said =P I hadn't noticed that G500, so don't mind what I wrote.

kaju · Post by **kaju** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:15 am

Thanks for your replies.
I'll update the drivers for Mobo etc and Matrox. They are from 2002-2003 or so, I think.

All installation made when building my system was done very carefully. Nothing was done without thinking of the consequences.
But of course I do know too little about the technical side, just tried to follow the information I had available.

I'll let you know how I advance. But that doesn't happen before July. I have much else to do now. Always too little time.

kaju

kaju · Post by **kaju** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:48 am

Valis,
I did my best to disable ALL (unnecessary) bells and whistles anywhere I could, following of course very carefully the information available on MusicXp.net and Black Viper sites. And reading this forum and other forums before even dreaming of getting this new audio-only machine:)

And please note that this noise happens mostly when there is much graphic and audio activity going on. As in some of the Reaktor "beat-boxes".
I can get rid of the noise by running Reaktor minimized.
But cannot get rid of the clicks in SX3 as it cannot be run minimized.

- I'll start with updating the G550 driver, tonight. I've already downloaded it.

- Next I'll try what happens without HT.

- Then I'll try Standard Pc.

- I'll download PCI conf software and check Matrox, but it should use the default set in BIOS?

- I'll update the mobo (D865PERL) drivers

- What next?
Could anybody recommend something else?

Thanx in advance

kaju

[ This Message was edited by: kaju on 2005-06-18 01:50 ]

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:51 am

I have a Matrox P650, recently upgraded from a G400 (both dual head). The G400 had the software option to disable bus mastering, but the P650 doesn't seem to. Regardless of that option, I was getting audio glitches at 7ms ULLI with either video card.

Now I use the PCI tools from
http://mark-knutson.com/t3/

I set:
AGP to 32
CW cards to 128
all other PCI devices at 64 (bios setting)

Amazing boost in performance in audio AND midi - now glitch free at 4ms latency.

Some sluggish screen redraws, but I can kill the PCI app to restore the video performance

I think this PCI bus adjusyment is THE ANSWER.

/dave

Post by **garyb** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:18 am

glad that that hack works for you, but i've never needed it to get 4ms on a d865perl....

kaju · Post by **kaju** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:28 pm

I too found this mark-knutson site, but I'm a little bit unsure if I really need it. I mean I get (like gary) ok performance with D865perl and Matrox G550 (busmastering disnabled) at 4ms.
It's only this problem with simultaneus aggressive audio and graphics.
Maybe I'm demanding too much. This could well be an extreme situation.
But, anyway, I'll try this mark-knutson thing.

I just updated the Matrox driver. No improvement. But then I didn't expect any.

I wonder, am I the only one to get these noises with those Reaktor dancing graphics?
Can you run, say, a Metaphysical Function. ens with it's zig-zagging graphics and get a clean audio output?

kaju

Post by **garyb** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:13 pm

try the program, it can't hurt....

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:44 am

After following above tweaks, now, it only happens running VOB files, when I must turn display settings to medium(16 bit colours) ...and it goes

a dummy with this system:(...still working quiet&well)
Chieftec DX-01BD-U 360W.; asusP4B533/intel845E 2.4ghz; 2x512DDR333; matroxG550; 2xScopeProject+1Home=15 DSPs; and a good confortable chair!