Classic operation of SFP 4

tenoleno · Post by **tenoleno** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:47 pm

I just bit the bullet and bought a new G5, gave up on holding on to the world of os 9 for the sake of my Luna II Card.

Can one do anything in classic mode under osx? Just wondering if you could open up SPF to record a sample to VDAT or something similar, or routing to a wave editor...

Not expecting to use DSP etc but just to use the quality A/Ds I paid for without needing a dedicated computer.

Thanks

Post by **garyb** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:28 am

it's all or nothing, i'm sorry to tell you...

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:04 am

Did you keep your old system?

tenoleno · Post by **tenoleno** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:09 am

It was a sick g3 and I didn't want to spend another wasted manhour resurrecting it. Was getting all sorts of b+w error messages when booting - and that was with a formatted disc, clean system install.

That being said I might try again with a new harddrive and see what I get, in terms of just using it for taking samples...

Im still trying to decode from the various lists on this site weather creamware are really condisering osx and havent yet becuase of $, or if the mac market isn't important enough to them to bother - especially as the new g5s are pcix...

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:47 am

New Macs are incompatible whether PCI-x or PCI because both are 3.3 volt only (Creamware cards are 5v). Might seem like a minor fix but then there's also the fact that Creamware went through insolvency not too long ago and above all the Mac platform is about to take a rather big shift to Intel cpu's. I suspect once that occurs (assuming Creamware does well in the intervening time) the OSX port will look a lot more feasable as Apple will be on the same general hardware as everyone else.

In the meantime you might consider using your current cards in the G3 or in another inexpensive system and wire it to your main DAW via adat and midi. I have my cards in an ancient Intel BX chipset board, cpu is running all of 733Mhz and is even able to load the occasional interesting bit of software with all Creamware dsps full. I also have both systems connected to an outboard mixer, but for those who prefer to work 'in the box' using Scope externally is really no different than incorporating any other gear into your DAW. Once you're used to it the workflow is really no different than recording musical performances and typical studio hardware.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:19 am

On 2005-06-10 05:09, tenoleno wrote:
... Was getting all sorts of b+w error messages when booting - and that was with a formatted disc, clean system install...

did it say anything about 'cache missing' or 'cache failure' ?
in that case it's just the CPU - some G3s develope problems with the memory on the CPU carrier. Use one of the cheapo upgrades (if your machine is a blue/white it's still worth it).

The setup Valis describes makes even more sense than running the card under OSX (imho), considering the price of 2nd hand gear.
I've seen P3/1G machines in 19" rackmounts been sold for less than 100 bucks.

cheers, Tom

tenoleno · Post by **tenoleno** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:29 am

Thanks for the advice -
so presumably If I can get the g3 running, then do my a/d via the luna and do any synth/further processing work in this environment.

I think the new g5 dual 1.8 comes with a sp/dif in, so i could rout my sp/dif output from the luna into the native soundcard on the g5? ie - get the a/d and synth benefits and feed the result digitally into the new workstation.

Sounds feasible, then all I need to do is set up a vga/usb switcher so I can use the one display and keyboard/mouse for operations...

Any advice on logistics would be of enourmous benefit. Especially is the signal flow can be more complicated (ie use more creamware stuff) than that, using the current hardware. I cant afford a new soundcard - yet. Thanks

tenoleno · Post by **tenoleno** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:58 am

The old machine is a g3 400 b&w. Ill need to check the error messages but there were about three different ones. it was too much frustration to bother working on but it sounds like its worth another shot in the proposed setup.

I take it the scsi card I currently have will be of no use either in the new machine? I didn't realise the voltage difference - the mac shops dont reveal too much! Thanks, Eliot

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:40 am

Man, you could even (heaven forbid) grab a PIII 800 Mhz like ive got for nothing and throw the cards in there

Mine's fine as the main machine still, and ADAT & midi dont mind

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wayne on 2005-06-10 08:47 ]</font>

tenoleno · Post by **tenoleno** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:08 pm

Actually, looking at the interface with the native soundcard on g5 doesn't look that hard - but not too straightforward....

The g5 has optical in and optical out. The luna II has a combined coax sp/dif connector. So therefore, I guess Id need a minijack to 2x rca cable (75 ohm if I was being picky) and then two cheapo optical/coax converters, then two optical cables to the g5.

Sounds feasible but then again things are never easy in application. Any realy world experince of a similar setup? Those accessories add up in cost and I dont want to waste time/$ if i can avoid it!
Thanks.

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:44 pm

There's an accessory for your Luna that has adat/optical ports called "SCOPE home I/O Expansion". I wonder if they will work as optical spdif (and give you more adat for the future)?

http://www.cwaudio.de/index.php?seite=s ... ns&lang=en

tenoleno · Post by **tenoleno** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:10 pm

Yeah I know but at the moment and with c/wares stance on macs im not keen to invest any more $ into their system. Too much fear of the eventual dead end I think.

The two computer thing is a great idea - but a compromise based on the reality of the mac situation... one computer to do all would be better!

I wonder with those domestic optical/coax adaptors - they are designed and sold for home hifi - not sure if they suffer in situations where sample rate compatibility really makes the difference - ie audio production.

Thanks

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:19 am

well, it's of course up to personal estimation, but a well configured SFP setup (on it's own box) is just as timeless as a TR808, a Minimoog, a quality digital mixer or any 'classic' piece of outboard gear.

in fact the 2 computer setup will keep things much simpler as you'll probably never have to reconfigure the SFP box (except adding a plugin occasionally), while on the G5 there will be lots of software transitions (naturally).

SFP isn't perfect due to it's incredibly complex nature - it's that lack of restrictions that causes one or the other hickup. But considering my 2 Pulsar Ones and about 1-2k Euro plugins, I still think it's a bargain for what I can do with it

cheers, Tom

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:50 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but the G5 spdif is 48kHz only, I'm afraid. I'm not 100% sure but try to investigate it.

tenoleno · Post by **tenoleno** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:24 pm

From the mac site:

Optical digital audio in
Fsi-input sample rate (external clock mode): 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz
Fsi-input sample rate (internal clock mode): 16 kHz to 96 kHz

Optical digital audio out
Output sample rate: 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz

as for the luna... well my computer is not going at the moment and the manual doesnt say anything - but I presume 44.1 or 48? anyone know offhand?

I presume compatibility....

Thanks

Post by **hubird** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:34 pm

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:18 pm

tenoleno wrote: as for the luna... well my computer is not going at the moment and the manual doesnt say anything - but I presume 44.1 or 48? anyone know offhand?

tenoleno, SFP runs on 44.1kHz by default. It can be master at 32, 44.1, 48 and 96kHz, and slaved it can handle a much wider range.