Thank you Johannes Paul II.

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:30 pm

You lived your life for your task.
God may take you on his side, thank you.

<img src="http://img.web.de/c/00/57/C1/3C.420"></img>

picture copyright dpa

[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2005-04-02 15:32 ]

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:02 pm

Pole Vaulting

Post by **hubird** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:24 pm

...and thank you for your inexhaustible support of homosexuals emancipation, women emancipation, both in and outside the church, aids victoms specially in Africa, and for your great contribution in the abortion and euthanasy discussion.
Sorry, don't feel sentimental with his farewell...

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:34 pm

I thought it was interesting that the news of the pope's death was first delivered via email.

wavelength · Post by **wavelength** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:09 am

somebody once said that you don't need to like the words to feel the music...

he was a good man.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:38 am

Huub, it's a pitty, but that's also how I'll remember him...

I'm too young to have withnessed his contribution to the fall of communism and unification of Europe, in which he played a great role... Also, he was the one rehabilitating Galileo in 1984, so since that time for christians the earth is officially no longer the center of the universe.

My consolidations to Poland, and to all the people who looked up to him.

[ This Message was edited by: at0m on 2005-04-03 12:13 ]

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:03 am

I don't think Chris started this thread to complain. Please, respect it and if you didn't like Jan Pawel II don't write anything here.

If there were no Jan Pawel II we couldn't talk here together because he started all the democratic movement in Poland and probably whole eastern Europe. His words were like hammer for people here in Poland. in the 70/80. It's hard to understand it for you how important he was for us. I'm not a historian, neither politics enthusiast but it looks like. Please, don't argue with me here because this is not the time for. For me this is very hard time.

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2005-04-03 10:06 ]

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:00 am

I was a student at the Berklee School of Music in Boston when the Pope visited that city. I had a Nigerian friend there who was angry at the Pope because the Pope urged people in Poland to revolt against the government but he insisted the opposite to black South Africans fighting aparthied. So much for Present GW Bush's statement that "the world has lost a champion of human freedom".

I am firmly against the apparently successful drive to convert Africans to Catholicism. The philosphy of "saving the heathens", is out dated and clearly should stop.

The Pope was known as "John Paul". I predict the next Pope will be "George Ringo".

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:11 pm

Braincell,
i'd like to ask you to read the message above yours couple of times, take a walk in the forest and think before you write something, that insults both feelings of other people and memory of a great man (no, he wasn't perfect, nobody is)

R.D. Olivaw · Post by **R.D. Olivaw** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:18 pm

The Pope was known as "John Paul". I predict the next Pope will be "George Ringo".

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:53 pm

my deepest respect to John Paul 2nd, despite some questionable ideas he propagated.

He succeeded remarkably in his mission and continued his work under the most difficult personal circumstances until the end. Those easter pictures were truely moving, even for me as a non-believer in 'personalized' religion.
I consider his official admit of being guilty for destruction of native culture in the name of the catholic church (in South America) one of his most impressive acts - they've had some centuries to do this...

On 2005-04-03 12:00, braincell wrote:
...I had a Nigerian friend there who was angry at the Pope because the Pope urged people in Poland to revolt against the government but he insisted the opposite to black South Africans fighting aparthied. ...

a proof for his realism and farsight... (?)
obviously the people in Poland were ready for a change, but what happened in South Africa in the name of 'replacement of apartheid' is just pure madness.

Not to be mistaken: apartheid is a moral and political obscenity, but what followed looks like a mixture of vengance and what happens if people are in charge of jobs they don't have any idea about - driving the country's economy straight into ruin.
Btw I've been told about this by someone who visits South Africa for many years, who could be characterized as pretty 'left' oriented politically.

cheers, Tom

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:10 pm

This is an international, multicultural forum. If you don't want dissent, stick the post on your bedroom wall.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:50 pm

Let's keep it cool...

This is a very delicate matter, because of the different meanings that the Pope has for many people.

Everyone, on either side, should understand that he represented an institution that has been very benevolent in some contexts but also very cruel in some other, that some may think with some historical reason that this man had a strong influence in helping their freedom and others can think, with some historical reason too, exactly the opposite.

So, if we want to express our opinions freely, let's keep in mind that everyone has strong elements to back his vision, reality has as many faces as the points of view, and all are legitimate.

Nobody should feel offended if somebody else had a different experience with religious and political matters.

It can only make each point of view more valid and articulate to understand this.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:31 pm

aw fuck it.

Post by **hubird** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:05 pm

Sorry Samplaire if I made you upset, I didn't want you to feel sad about it.
I know the special meaning he has for Poland, and with reasons, tv programs showed it all again

But, as he isn't a 'father' for me, I just critisized his opinions about well known 'socio-political' discussions.
He wanted to play a political role, at that level I gave my opinion.
Don't feel embarrassed, it's not in my intentions, and sorry if I did

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-04-04 00:14 ]

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:47 pm

I'm sorry. I should have more respect. I guess I don't take these matters as seriously as others. It's nice for the Catholics that they can have a living person to worship.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:59 pm

It's tricky with these sort of things that usually they come up for discussion when some terrible event has happened. That makes the issue more sensitive.

Reminds me of when the space shuttle blew up there was an OT thread on KvR about it where several people belittled the space program and mocked the dead astronauts. I was so mad I've never posted on KvR since.

The moment of someones death is a bad time to start criticising them. If you want to start badmouthing the pope perhaps a seperate thread would be better ?

R.D. Olivaw · Post by **R.D. Olivaw** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:43 am

Wether you liked him or not, my opinion is that you shouldn't be sad about his death. He was so sick, his death at least delivered him from pain.
But of course I know it's not possible to control feelings.
I do respect and support everyone's feelings about this ending.

skwawks · Post by **skwawks** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:51 pm

1...8 new priests in Ireland last year
2...1,000 fat cats of dubious sexuality in fancy dress in Rome last week .
says it all really!!

MikeRaphone · Post by **MikeRaphone** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:40 am

When people get solemn and serious the human spirit is lost to fear and becomes impaired and bound by dogma which has always been an instrument of religious an worldly rulers to control masses, as far as John Paul II goes, he will have to talk to his Maker to see where he has gone right and where he has gone wrong. It is up to us here how we treat each other- either with respect and understanding(even when we don't agree) or try to silence what we don't like and glorify what we feel dear to us. What Christians(i mean sincere believers who lead religious lives and honestly trust their live in the hands of God) should do anyway is try to follow words from the Bible, judge not or you shall be jugded and who holds the sword will die by the sword and Love your fellow human beings etc... nuff said