The decline of live music

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:21 pm

Just wondering if this is a global phenomenon.

In my working life (1982- ) I have seen a real reduction in opportunities to work live - venues closing, gambling & entertainment tech on the rise, noise complaints etc. etc.

I feel like a vanishing species....

My friend Jacky Orszaczky dropped through Perth on the weekend (on tour with Billy Thorpe

) and gave me a survey to fill out regarding this.

It seems the NSW Arts Ministry/Arts Council music board have made a survey recently on this topic, but neglected to ask musicians themselves - pdf on this page - which is why Jack developed this (live musicians) survey.

Any Australian live musos who would like to contribute, pm me and I'll copy it and send it to you.

Otherwise, I'd like to hear what your experiences are of this worldwide.

Cheers, W

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:46 pm

Hoi Wayne,

Here in Belgium, I have the impression there's never been so much good bands and gigs, I think the scene is very much alive. Festivals and clubs they're doing great.
Only 'bad' thing is that more and more Clear Channel Events, whose events I will not attend, are taking over part of the market.

But hey, I don't gig, don't play in bars or clubs... Anyone who's been performing in the scene for a while here?

at0m.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:48 pm

Absolutely!

Unfortunately live music is getting a big cold, and there is everywhere machines to accompany musicians. Yes, it is worldwide, as in every country we are experiencing the same. Instrumental skills are also getting slowly lost. I don’t mean there is not quite a lot of people playing very well, indeed, but not as many as they use to be.

Resonant Serpent · Post by **Resonant Serpent** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:59 pm

I don't know how it is in other places, but I've seen some really vile behavior take place at live shows here in Texas.

When I was younger, I did nothing but dream of playing live. I would sit in class designing my stage sets, where the instruments would go, and all the rest of the crazy stuff I could think of.

I noticed a change in crowds about ten years ago. I usually went to goth, punk, industrial shows-but always felt a connection to the people around me. It's not that way anymore. People at the ground level are so squeezed economically, that I think they're just looking for a release-by commiting violence against other people. Going to a show isn't fun anymore.

The number of bands that I actually want to see has dropped drastically. Most of what I listen to is european, and the amount of bands that can make it into this country is small. Bands that do come around, will usually play in the better economies up north, or play such small places that the only way to see the show is pay 100.00 a ticket from scalpers. I've come to loathe cigarette smoke along with all the asses who try to make a scene.

I love live music, I just can't stand the other people that go to check it out. I've seen Manson get his teeth knocked out with a shoe, numerous band members knocked out with beer bottles, and the shooting of Dimebag (the first guitar teacher I ever had) has made me swear off most live music. And the venues don't help. Over zealous security, skinheads employed by clubs, and the high cost of tickets----etc.

I'll stay at home, in my studio, and create what I want to hear. I'm planning to move soon, and I hope to find a town with more music-and less violence.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:10 am

In the Washington DC area live shows are on the decline. The problem is that people don't want clubs in their neighborhoods and they put them in bad neighborhoods. You have to drive far to get to it and then there is crime. You are likely to have your car scratched or windows broken or car stolen or you might not make it to the club or back to your car alive. The other thing is that the internet is very popular now. People find things to do online and there are computer games and hundreds of TV channels, just a lot more entertainment than ever before, granted most of it is not good but that could be said for a lot of the live shows as well. To me a live concert is a rip-off because I can buy the CD for the same cost and hear it over and over again, plus it will sound much better. The element of the chemistry between the musicians themselves and the audience members is highly over rated in my opinion and meeting people would be impossible due to the very loud volume they play at.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:50 am

I can't say I can represent the latin heritage here in Miami just yet, (moved here last november) but I think live music is pretty strong here. It's all about salsa baby!

There's lots of cuban salsa dance and music here.. The latin/cuban people dance to live music as if by second nature, and it's seems like it's an extremely important part of their culture. I walk by bars around miami beach, and see congas, timbales, etc. the whole latin percussion setup. They usually play on top of pre recorded material, if that makes a difference. But the integration of music into their every day culture is nothing short of beautiful.

In Tokyo.. well, there's more emphasis on street performances than on "band on stage" type performances. Street performance used to be big in the 70s in Japan, and seems to be on the revival in recent years. It's kind of nice to see worn out business men in their 50s, coming home from work, with a beer in their hand on a friday, (that they bought at a kiosk in the train station) and humming along to a 20 year old youngster playing a tune his father used to like. It's just singin and guitars.. simple, naive, and true.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2005-03-31 02:54 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:04 am

Here in Paris, there is alot going on all the times. The is a small booklet called "lylo" which list 60 pages of live show per week or so.

You can play live almost anywere, like in café, restaurants, small bars, parks.

There is a trend in "neo-french" acoustics music actually.

You can plan a show almost anywere in Paris in 2 days or less. Every bar/restaurant/café have their band playing at least once a week. Some have bands everyday.

I love Paris for this, allways something coOl going on

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:03 am

I played live in Sydney all during the 80s and early 90s. I noticed the live scene collapsing in Sydney in the mid-80s. It happened in waves.

First some of the live venues becames 'clubs' and employed more DJs than bands.

Then some of the venues started being 'renovated'. This just meant that yuppies moved in, ripped out all the old furnishings and put on canned jazz and such.

Licensing laws also had a big impact where late night venues had to pretend to be restaurants to keep their liquor license.

I was also friends with a few venues owners and used to talk economics with some of them. One interesting phenomena of the late 80s was that band audiences no longer were buying alcohol. It was the big craze in XTC starting so all the kids would turn up drugged already and drink water. Ruin to the venue owners who make their money from drinks !

So instead the idea was to get rid of the bands and go for the older demographic who still drank.

But the biggest killer of all was poker machines. Wayne, you might know (or remember) the Evil Star, Aurora and Strawberry Hills hotels in Surry Hills Sydney ? They were all within 100 meters of each other and all used to host live music. They ALL switched to poker machines (slot machines) and stopped bands and even DJs. That's just one tiny example from where I used to live.

Now the city is awash with the damn poor-tax machines, the state government is raking in the profit, the venue are souless gambling houses, and live music is stuffed.

Finally there's DJs. In a lot of venues I feel they're like the "poor mans band". They play music, give a slight human presence, but are cheap. They also replaced a lot of live music.

Phew ! What a rant.

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:08 am

On 2005-03-31 04:03, Spirit wrote:

Wayne, you might know (or remember) the Evil Star, Aurora and Strawberry Hills

Yep, used to gig in those pubs too

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:53 am

Electronic music is more like painting than a performance art. You wouldn't pay to see an artist create a painting. I lay down music with brush strokes over a long period of time. When I tell people I am a musician they often ask me if I am in a band and ask where I play. It has come to the point where I have a fake band. All the members are me. A related question. Musicians work together but artists who work with oil on canvas never work with other artists. Why? Because they would argue? Because they are power hungry and want all the credit? Is it because they could make more money as individuals?

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:59 pm

To me, the magic of playing live is about making something where the whole is greater than the parts. There is what used to be called "extra sensory perception" going on when all is as it should be in a live band.

When I was 15 or so, I was busking in the city with my brother and a mate, and we invited a drummer along whom we'd just met, he was 12 at the time.

I think we were playing an old southern tune called "Ja-Da", and during the trumpet solo I cut loose with some very angular cross-rhythms on the banjo - and was amazed to hear the young drummer hitting every accent with me!

This wasn't visually cued, it's just what happens when live musicians who suit each other well play together. It's the first instance of this I remember, but it has happened all my life, with the right musicians.

I think the other beautiful thing about live music is that it is ephemeral, the energy created just dissipates into the atmosphere and ground, as we do, and isn't there the next day to be appreciated like a cd or painting.

There's something kinda romantic about that....

...and it's very different to making music by oneself, that's for sure

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:26 am

On 2005-03-31 11:53, braincell wrote:
Electronic music is more like painting than a performance art. You wouldn't pay to see an artist create a painting. I lay down music with brush strokes over a long period of time.

Best description I've read....

j9k · Post by **j9k** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:00 am

@ at0mic

oh my f#$%ing!!! god!!! clear channel in belgium. those bastards own a huge portion of the radio spectrum here. nuthin but rubish 24/7

j9k

MikeRaphone · Post by **MikeRaphone** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:10 am

We played live three times this year already...

More electronic industrial(you know straight 4/4 banging into your ears like a machine) music in all public media means people will get fed up with it and turn back to more organic live performances, because it will sound "fresh" to them...
I think so

Music is the magic

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:37 am

I really don't give a damn for live shows, there's not a single tune that does not conform to the "norm", every song is freaking predictable and boring, and some quite stupid.

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:18 am

Post by **garyb** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:55 pm

hmmm, i just like music when it sounds good. i realize that manufactured music matters little whether it is live or not, but other stuff is best experienced in the moment, between performers and audience.....

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-04-01 15:56 ]

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:44 pm

I believe that if we want it to happen we can make it happen .... mostly. We can book venues, do promotion, hire security etc. We are competing with all the other entertainment on the market, and that's a lot. So if we're gonna compete, we need to be professional. And if we wanna eat, and we're playing small venues, we better keep our costs way down, and sell merchandise.

I met a pro trio who toured consistently and made a fair living, in Australia, .... but they had no soundguy, no manager, no road help. Did it all.

[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2005-04-01 22:02 ]

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:40 pm

On the road doing all your own lifting and book-keeping. Yech.

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:13 am

Yeah well, for some it's the only way....

A guitarist I spoke to felt there were only a handful of decent playing/paying venues/festivals in Australia. He thought that if he and his partner (songwriter) were gonna put effort in, they may as well go overseas. At least they'd be building recognition within the market, instead of 10,000 miles away.

Sorry if I'm getting OT here.

[ This Message was edited by: Mikka on 2005-04-02 03:17 ]