Waves IR-L Versus SIR

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:36 am

Has anyone compaired Waves IR-L convolution reverb to SIR convolution reverb?

[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2005-02-21 09:36 ]

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:09 am

Not myself, but also worthy of note is Voxengo's Pristime Space (0-latency conv. reverb):

http://voxengo.com/pspace/

It also integrates with impulses created with their "Impulse Modeler" software.

AFAIK SIR still isn't 0-latency.

Royston

borg · Post by **borg** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:58 am

christian knufinke from SIR announced he's working on a zero-latency version (a year ago).
Waves has a latency of 11,6ms @ 44,1kHz or 5,3 @ 96kHz.
the voxengo verb is not really zero-latency, but 1,5ms seems close enough for a reverb, especially for tracking...

can't compare though, but remember, SIR is still free... latency 8960 samples. mmm

[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2005-02-21 11:01 ]

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:08 am

borg wrote:
christian knufinke from SIR announced he's working on a zero-latency version (a year ago).
Waves has a latency of 11,6ms @ 44,1kHz or 5,3 @ 96kHz.
the voxengo verb is not really zero-latency, but 1,5ms seems close enough for a reverb, especially for tracking...

can't compare though, but remember, SIR is still free... latency 8960 samples. mmm

True, nothing's really 0-latency, including our perception of the world!

(I think that Cubase SL/SX from v2 onwards can compensate for this, no?)

Royston

borg · Post by **borg** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:31 am

On 2005-02-21 11:08, Counterparts wrote:
I think that Cubase SL/SX from v2 onwards can compensate for this, no?

i don't know myself, but a lot of folks one the ableton forum are asking for PluginDelayCompensation 'like in SX or the new Logic', so i guess this is true. i never seemed to have a need for this so far.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:43 am

True, nothing's really 0-latency, including our perception of the world!

(I think that Cubase SL/SX from v2 onwards can compensate for this, no?)

Wow, Cubase can compensate for my perception of the world... cool.

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:07 pm

Mr Arkadin wrote:

Wow, Cubase can compensate for my perception of the world... cool.

Aye, 'tis a very clever program!

valis · Post by **valis** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:38 pm

Plugin compensation in Ableton surely would only work for the arrange-style workspace.

Personally I prefer SIR btw, most of the 'advanced' features in the Waves plugin are doing various transforms (like pitch/time) to the 'impulse' file to allow you more 'flexibility' during run-time. Some prefer the added flexibility, but imo its not hard to build up a large library of impulses and processing impulses yourself in a wave editor for creative uses is so much more fun than just an extra slider or two.

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:47 am

stardust wrote:

Yes also the conduction of a stimulus in the neurons has latency.
But this is compensated by the brain by anticipation of tactile/sensuous inertia.

Don't quite agree. At the point where we percieve the world, there's already been a whole bunch of filtering gone on, memories applied etc. More confusingly, part of that process may be to include our perception of time itself, so what we end up experiencing *is* in 'real time'. However, the net effect is that we witness time as it flows away from us, not towards us. We're constantly recollecting, recollecting...

To "turn ourselves around" in order to face time as it flows towards us, rather than away from us is indeed an incredible challenge! One may even mount a moment uising this technique and allow it to carry us onwards into the eternity which surrounds us...

More likely, the shock and terror of such a shift in our perception would kill us

Royston

p.s. LOL, early morning caffeine powered philosophy

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:07 am

in this domain science is practiced in a rather unscientific way...

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:57 am

On 2005-02-22 04:47, Counterparts wrote:
stardust wrote:

Yes also the conduction of a stimulus in the neurons has latency.
But this is compensated by the brain by anticipation of tactile/sensuous inertia.

More likely, the shock and terror of such a shift in our perception would kill us

Royston

p.s. LOL, early morning caffeine powered philosophy

Oh right caffeine, I'm sure that's what it was.

A perception shift would be unsettling for some to say the least but to look at the positive side, a massive population wide perception shift could be a boom for pharmesutical companies, so if you invest early you might become quite wealthy as a result.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:25 pm

Found another one "convoboy".

http://www.shareit.com/demoreg.html?productid=300005596

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:40 am

Well I tried it and I actually think SIR is better because it has more features. I especially like the fact that I can remove the dry signal with SIR. The sound quality seems the same. SIR is freeware while Convo Boy expects donations.

Zer · Post by **Zer** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:08 am

I dunno what`s so much about that. Samplitude had this kind of reverb for over 10 years now.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:26 am

heh, "perception of the world" eh. Not something I expected in a convolution thread, but I'll expand on it nonetheless. I've been fascinated by how we preceive reality, the little sense that we make out of it, and what fools us into thinking we're intelligent beings. The world of cognitive science. Topic's been on and off on Z, especially because it's part of our job as artists to present alternative representations of reality to point out things that would otherwise go unnoticed.

I'm in a class about it as a part of my Music Technology grad couse right now, and it's been quite interesting. Check out a book called MIND Introduction to Cognitive Science, by Paul Thagard. Not the newest book around I guess, but it does go over the basics. It's actually geared toward artificial intelligence, so if you're interested in that, it'll definitely be a good place to start.

The approach is rather interesting. In the first half of the book, it goes through different theories to try to explain the act of thinking like logic, rules, metaphores, neural networks, etc. Then, in the middle of the book, it presents "emotions and consciousness" as a challenge to all the mechanisms presented in the first half. So, it kind of conflicts itself. I just got to the second half this week so I can't tell you what the author's conclusion is. Interesting way to write a textbook tho.

How does this relate to convolution? Well, it relates to the act of being creative in general. Cognitive science I think is one of those things an artist should have a general understanding of because it deals with sensory perception and how or brain processes the info. The two essential tools of an artist to make his piece click.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2005-03-01 02:27 ]