XTC or not ???

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Is there a way to run VDAT into XTC mode?

Sam

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:03 pm

Hi there,

I run Nuendo2 which is basically similar to SX, and I can say 110% that using the Scope enviorment is WAY more powerfull that using XTC mode, its very simple, think of it like this...

XTC mode is CW's name for VST, that simple.. So if your working in SX the onlything you will get from XTC/VST mode is the ability to use the CW effects/synths as plugins within SX, this is good if you just want your Scope card for being able to use the plugs as inserts and vst synths.

Now... Scope Platform, this is MUCH more powerfull, a few things being that you can use all the free synths, flexor, modular synths, sts samplers, plus all the regular stuff that can be used inside of XTC/VST mode, but with the added bonus of having all the mixer and routing possiblites.

Its so simple, once you make you default .pro that loads everytime you can set up SX to default and read all the virtual input/output's of the CW cards, then you can go into the out/ins page of SX and name your outs so from here on they are always both running together, its so powerfull.

I use this method tons, I like to take specific things sometimes like lets say a drum track, and make a group in SX, then set the group out for the perc to a output of SX that is virtually routed to an ASIO input of Scope, then from there I can apply any effects I like such as, Vinco, Filters, EQ's etc etc just as an example..

I find the sound of the Scope mixers to give me a more crisp sound than the Nuendo mixer. Whats also nice is that in Scope mode you have zero latency monitoring, so it acts the same was as PDC in SX.

Another very nice feature is the virtual routing, as EG: since running thing in Scope mode you wont be able to just export a final mix as if you were using XTC/VST mode, so I set a wave destination coming out of my STM 2448 and I run a wave editor in the background and record the ASIO output directly into the wave editor in realtime, for some reason I get much hotter and cleaner mix down

It seems a bit confusing at 1st but once you understand how it works your just gonna be like ' Ohhhh! I get it, that makes perfect sense.." then everything starts to just feel very natural.

If you have any questions feel free to ask or PM

Hope that heled a lil.

Cheers!

Nisse · Post by **Nisse** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:20 pm

! must give my take on the XTC vs. Scope thing

I use XTC mode because to me its terribly annoying to work with two applications at once. I find it frustrating when writing music to have to constantly switch between Scope and Cubase. I want simplicity, I want everything in one application. Several things that Basic Pitch mentions are not offocially supported in XTC mode. Like the modular, third party devices, the STS samplers, the Scope mixers and the Scope environment routing.

Third party devices: With the "rename dll trick" posted both here and on Aderns forum you can use basically all third party devices in XTC mode, even if they dont officially support it.

Modular: With the above mentioned trick, you can also use all modular patches in XTC mode. you still have to open the modular in Scope mode if you want to build your own patches.

STS samplers: Except for the Volksampler, none can be used in XTC mode. Why bother I ask? The STS series are one of the few crappy products Creamware has made. There are VST samplers that are better IMO. Like Halion or Kontakt. I use Halion and I love it. No more bulky STS interface and ram based only sampler for me.

Scope mixers: Can of course not be used in XTC mode. You use your sequencers mixer. Depending on what type of work you do, your mixer needs will vary greatly. I produce electronic music and feel Cubase SX:s mixer is more than adequate.

Scope environment routing: Can of course not be used in XTC mode, and its the only thing I sometimes miss. But since Rhythmaster found a way to route separate analysis and synthesis signals into Vocodizer in XTC mode I dont think about this anymore.

Also. I have a new AMD XP3200 processor and loads of high quality VST plugins. I want to be able to fully utilize these plugins and thouroughly tap into the processing power of my computer in all instances of my work, I dont wish to limit myself to my two Scope cards only in regards to DSP power.
XTC mode is for me the perfect way of working when I wish to mix down my Scope synths. In XTC mode I can easily use my Waves and TC Electronics vst plugs on my scope synths.

Just my two cents

_________________
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind.

/Mahatma Gandhi

[ This Message was edited by: Nisse on 2004-05-28 14:23 ]

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri May 28, 2004 2:21 pm

On 2004-05-28 14:20, Nisse wrote:
I use XTC mode because to me its terribly annoying to work with two applications at once. I find it frustrating when writing music to have to constantly switch between Scope and Cubase.

Simple solution

Use 2 monitors, I started with a single and also disliked having to constantly tab from application to app, it felt very unatural and made me notice that I was working in 2 apps at the same time, now I use dual monitors and let me tell ya, it feels very smooth, I just mouse over to SFP from the Nuendo screen, also, I keep some sfp items on top of the Nuendo screen when needed so they appear as if they are integrated.

Now as far as using other plugs? well there is no reason not to use any and all VST plugs while SFP is running, hell I use UAD-1, TC Powercore, and tons of VST plugs at the same time, and if ya wanna use other DSP or VST plugs on your CW stuff theres ways for that easilly to be done aswell.

- Either rout the CW synths to audio tracks and burn them then process.

- Use external effect inputs in SFP so you can use your VST/DSP effects on anything CW related.

I dont know just for me, the one turn off I have regarding XTC mode, is that the levels do not seem nearly as hot as they do in SFP mode, for some reason synths sound low.

Cheers!

Nisse · Post by **Nisse** » Fri May 28, 2004 2:43 pm

Hi Basic

I think Im a bit more sensitive to the two apps thing. (Im also lazy) I already use two monitors (I love it, its wicked) but it still bothers me to have two apps running at once.

Basic wrote:
quote
- Either rout the CW synths to audio tracks and burn them then process.

- Use external effect inputs in SFP so you can use your VST/DSP effects on anything CW related.
unquote

Those are viable methods of working, I did that myself before I switched to XTC mode. But the above mentioned suggestions, this constant blasted routing between the two apps was exactly what got to me, hehe. I want it all in one app, dag nabbit

Your way of working is perfectly viable, its mostly a matter of personal taste I believe.

Edit: Regarding synths having weaker sound output in XTC mode, I´ve never noticed this. Maybe its just you, or maybe I will notice it as well now once you´ve mentioned it, hehe. I´ll have to look into this.

_________________
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind.

/Mahatma Gandhi

[ This Message was edited by: Nisse on 2004-05-28 15:46 ]

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri May 28, 2004 3:06 pm

Hey again,

Well its not the output in regards to effects, I find it ONLY on synths, as an example load a version of say Pro One, and then Load a comparable VST like say Pro53 then listen to the outputs of both, the CW is atleast a good 3-5db less in volume to the ear, I think actually tonight ill bounce some waves and run a test to compare the waves levels.

Cheers!

ksamus · Post by **ksamus** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:25 am

Hi
SFP enviroment is just like working in "real" good studio equpped with lots of outboard racks. Mayby it is not very simply , but it is much easier than make a good mix, write good song or even make a good, fresh sound on synth. In XTC mode you cant use POWERFULL routing window, mixers, STS samplers...
very nice solution is working with 2 monitors

doodyrh · Post by **doodyrh** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:57 am

I don't use XTC because most of the 3rd party devices don't support it.

And because I like the whole visual thing.

Still hoping for a future hybrid mode.

On 2004-05-28 10:34, marcuspocus wrote:
But our singer doesn't tolerate ANY latency at all, not even a latency as small as 3ms introduced by asio using even sfp mode...

3ms is the time taken for sound to travel 1 metre.
Is she one of those that get real close when talking to you?

[ This Message was edited by: doodyrh on 2004-06-14 10:20 ]

andredai · Post by **andredai** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:07 am

What about the modular 2 that came along with my scope home? Can this be used in XTC mode? i cannot find it in my VST instruments (i use cubase sx)

On 2004-05-27 18:01, Nisse wrote:
Hi.

You cant have XTC mode while Scope software is running. You either work in XTC mode, or normal mode. In XTC mode you work only in Cubase, with all scope instruments and effects available in Cubase. . . . except certain things. Certain things simply arent available in XTC mode. For example the STS samplers, Scope mixers, and the scope routing capabilities. When you work in XTC mode, you work only in Cubase, and forsake the Scope project environment.

XTC mode is basically just a "Sequencer integration mode" The whole point of XTC mode is to simplify things so people dont need to work with two applications running at once.

Hope this clears things up for you.

/Nisse.

Edit: XTCProject.pro is a kind of project that works as the "settings" for how things will work when you are working in XTC mode. Its not a way to utilize the project window routing capabilities while working in XTC mode. (at least this is how I understand it)

_________________
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind.

/Mahatma Gandhi

[ This Message was edited by: Nisse on 2004-05-27 18:04 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Nisse on 2004-05-27 18:06 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Nisse on 2004-05-27 18:18 ]