new Computer, still Scope?

[ThomasT]

Hallo,

i am currently plan to update my studio computer. A complete new one.
I will use Cubase.
And I have a 21 DSP Creamware System.
Is it still useful to use Scope these days.
I like to have to double mix option. So mixing in scope mixer and pre mix in Cubase.
And I like the routing.
Are there still boards with at least 2 PCI slots?

What do you recommend?

Thomas

[spacef]

There are PCIe to PCI risers, but I have no idea wether they work with a scope PCI card (or several, I've seen 2 PCI to PCI-e).
I personnally can't do without the scope routing, and other stuff...

[cortone]

The Tech Talk has a post with information about PCs.

If you are getting a new computer, consider leaving the DSP setup in the current computer and use ADAT connections from your new computer with Cubase.

[garyb]

yes, there are boards, but they will be for a couple generations back, still quite effective with current software. it depends on what you want. using the Scope box via ADAT is certainly another option. PCIe to PCI adaptors aren't that great. the XITE-1 is PCIe....

[ThomasT]

Hows the XITE-1 compared to scope cards?
And will I get all my plugins then?

XITE-1 has only two ADAT-IO ...

[garyb]

true about ADAT. an original A16 Ultra could add 16 more channels.
XITE-1 is about equivalent to 6-10 15dsp cards depending on how you use it. being PCIe, it will work with the newest computers.
yes, if you write to support when you purchase, you could get your plugins transferred.

[ThomasT]

XITE-1 is about equivalent to 6-10 15dsp cards depending on how you use it.

You really mean 10 times 15 DSP cards? So 150 versus my current 21. 5 times more DSP power?
I use it mainly for mixing and routing. I use the 64 channel mixer. A lot EQ, some comps. Sometimes reverb.

[Sounddesigner]

I would hate to have to make music without SCOPE. It still has its advantages in the modern era and still compliments a new computer. MANY of the devices still sound great and REALtime processing/Routing are always usefull, forever really. XITE-1 is largely future proof with so many different types PCIe they all can't disappear too quickly.

[Bud Weiser]

XITE-1 is about equivalent to 6-10 15dsp cards depending on how you use it.

You really mean 10 times 15 DSP cards? So 150 versus my current 21. 5 times more DSP power?
I use it mainly for mixing and routing. I use the 64 channel mixer. A lot EQ, some comps. Sometimes reverb.

"depending on how you use it" are the (Gary´s) key words.

You already think "10 times 15 DSP cards" which is much too simple.

In it´s main 4 DSP slots,- XITE-1 uses different Sharc DSPs (ADSP-21369 / 333MHz) than ancient Creamware cards (ADSP-21065L / 66MHz).
There are 3 in each of these 4 DSP slots = 999MHz per slot x4 = 3.996 MHz + 6 of the old 66MHz chips (396MHz).

When doin´ only the math, in a total, that´s 4.392 MHz (~ 4.4GHz) raw DSP power vs. 10x 15 DSP x 66MHz (= 9.9GHz).
So,- that can not be in real world and IMO, it´s better to see it different:

Each DSP slot in a XITE-1 houses 3 of the newer Sharc chips,- and w/ 3x 333Mhz, such slot is more or less an equivalent to ONE 15 DSP card (990MHz).
In opposite to a PCI card system using ribbon cables interconnecting 3 PCI cards inserted into host computer´s PCI slots,- you now get quasi 4 "cards" (4 slots w/ 3 large DSPs) w/ XITE-1.
And then,- there are no ribbon cables.
Instead, these are replaced by an array of legacy Sharc DSPs.
DSP #3 - #6 handle communication with the 4 "DSP slots" (DSP # 7 - #18),- and DSP #1 and #2 run soft-/ hardware I/Os, VDAT and some other stuff in addition,- p.ex. help w/ backwards compatibility.
And there´s RAM inside a XITE-1,- each of the newer SHARC chips has.

XITE works different compared to a DSP card and a big advantage of it´s newer and way more powerfull Sharc DSP chips is assigning bigger devices to just only 1 DSP,- means p.ex. more polyphony from synth on a single chip vs. spreading the load across several smaller DSPs.
This is also an advantage for mixers when these are optimized for XITE.

So, purchasing devices from developers owning a and designing for XITE, enshures better XITE optimization.
You´ll recorgnize,- legacy ZARG "sc edition" devices (Ambient v3 and Orion Custom v3 sc edition) work better on XITE than the big and very DSP/ Async hungry Zarg devices like Solaris v5, Quantum Wave and Rotor EX.

So, you don´t have 4 "virtual" 15 DSP cards only as also you don´t have 10 of these per sé.

I own 2 PCI card systems and XITE-1.
I never ever ran out of raw DSP power w/ XITE-1,- but I ran out of available communication lanes w/ large(r) projects.
The SAT (Async) connections across DSP chips and between host computer and XITE become the bottleneck sooner or later,- depending on how you use the machine.
You have control of DSP load and Async percentage in a Scope project and manual DSP assignment sometimes helps a lot,- but not always.

Legacy "Creamware" and 3rd party devices aren´t optimized for XITE-1 always and there are some which will never be.
Company out of biz and/or coders gone and devices being locked are 2 reasons why not every single device from the past and being used w/ the PCI cards can be optimized for XITE-1.

But, w/ every new SCOPE release since v5, auto DSP assignment for XITE-1 was improved and I´m sure that will continue w/ upcoming update.

XITE itself is a great piece of gear,- but SCOPE itself really needs the 64Bit related bug fixes, fixes of WAVE and ASIO driver and improved MIDI CC assignment w/ total recall still.



Bud

[ThomasT]

Hi,
thanks so far.

what are the bugs? I running ASIO from Cubase with max channels into SCOPE and than into big mixer.
Will there any issues with 64bit Windows?

Thomas

[Bud Weiser]

Hi,
thanks so far.

what are the bugs? I running ASIO from Cubase with max channels into SCOPE and than into big mixer.
Will there any issues with 64bit Windows?

Thomas

That´s a question for Gary.
AFAIK, he´s using Scope v7 w/ Cubase and Win10 x64 (possible Win 11 already ?) in his studio.

I myself, I got issues w/ Scope ASIO already on my Win 7 x64 SP1 machine.
But only w/ a few "standalone" running VSTis as also Presonuns Studio 1 Pro v4.x.

Absolutely no issues w/ p.ex. all the Cherry Audio VSTis running standalone as also not Cockos Reaper up to latest version and Reason 10.4 and 11.x..
Didn´t upgrade Studio 1 Pro and Reason because it´s not possible for Win 7.
So, no clue what´s up when using the higher versions and Win10 / 11.

I´m able to run and control SCOPE/XITE v7 standalone when using my Win10 Pro x64 laptop and XITE-PCIexpresscard34.
What works flawlessly w/ Scope ASIO runs in addition on demand once I loaded ASIO modules in a project.

Using WAVE driver for audio replay works w/ L + R channels inverted.
I don´t record via WAVE driver, but other users reported issues.

BNC wordclock sync w/ XITE as slave might not work (on some systems).
It works for some users and for others it doesn´t.



Bud

[ThomasT]

RME ADI-8 is my master. Scope is synced via ADAT. All other gear is synced by ADAT from Scope/Pulsar and WC from RME.

The onyl thing whats negativ on XITE is that is has onyl 2 ADAT I/Os.
I need 3.

1. RME-ADI8 (currently scope)
2. my FX via 4xSPDIF/ADAT Adapter. (i build it myself) (currently scope)
3. Focusrite Preamp (currently Pulsar)

[Bud Weiser]

RME ADI-8 is my master. Scope is synced via ADAT. All other gear is synced by ADAT from Scope/Pulsar and WC from RME.

I´m using the technically identical, but "Nuendo 8 I/O" re-branded RME converter on my main DAW w/ RME RayDat.

The onyl thing whats negativ on XITE is that is has onyl 2 ADAT I/Os.
I need 3.

Well,- don´t forget there are 2 Z-Link ports in addition.
There might be an investment for a used and good condition CW or S|C (blackface) A16U AD/DA on the horizon for you.

The latter is what I use w/ XITE-1 and Z-Link and w/ the advantage of Z-Link over ADAT,- using all the 16 channels I/O up to 96KHz w/o the need for SMUX.
And it leaves the 2 ADAT ports for other purposes (connecting to my main DAW´s RME HDSPe RayDat ADAT I/O ports).

1. RME-ADI8 (currently scope)

Eats only 1 ADAT I/O on XITE-1

2. my FX via 4xSPDIF/ADAT Adapter. (i build it myself) (currently scope)

There´s no SPDIF on XITE,- so it´s worthless.
But there´s AES/EBU I/O and possibly you´re able to buy (or build yourself and like you did for SPDIF) a new converter for.

3. Focusrite Preamp (currently Pulsar)

I guess, as a preamp, it just only eats 1 ADAT Input port on XITE,- so there´s still 1 ADAT Out port free (= 8 channels), no ?



Bud

[garyb]

i don't have any particular ASIO problems. some systems work better than others.
there are too many possible hardware configurations to give a definitive judgement about what works best. nobody can afford to test everything. most systems work plenty well. i have seeen a few, mostly laptops, that just don't offer the proper realtime bandwidth, and so are limited in the number of ASIO channels. for the most part, it's not an issue. when it is, well....

[ThomasT]

There´s no SPDIF on XITE,- so it´s worthless.

You did not understand me.

My outboard FX (Lexicon etc.) are connected via SPDIF to my self build SPDIF<->ADAT connector. It makes one ADAT out of 4 times SPDIF and 4 times SPDFI out of one ADAT. So it needs one ADAT in and one out.

http://www.krachwerk.de/tontechnik/asu82.html

[ThomasT]

i don't have any particular ASIO problems. some systems work better than others.
there are too many possible hardware configurations to give a definitive judgement about what works best. nobody can afford to test everything. most systems work plenty well. i have seeen a few, mostly laptops, that just don't offer the proper realtime bandwidth, and so are limited in the number of ASIO channels. for the most part, it's not an issue. when it is, well....

Thanks.

[Bud Weiser]

There´s no SPDIF on XITE,- so it´s worthless.

You did not understand me.

My outboard FX (Lexicon etc.) are connected via SPDIF to my self build SPDIF<->ADAT connector. It makes one ADAT out of 4 times SPDIF and 4 times SPDFI out of one ADAT. So it needs one ADAT in and one out.

http://www.krachwerk.de/tontechnik/asu82.html

O.k., now I understand.
But XITE-1 is what it is and just only offers 2 ADAT I/Os.
If that´s a dealbreaker for you,- don´t buy,- or try to design a DIY Z-Link < > ADAT format converter.
I understood you have these skills.
And let us know how that works ´cause I can imagine there are some users being interested in such device here.



Bud

P.S.:
Visited your website ...
Interesting what you do for EUR 100,- 8hrs per day w/ the background how much investment was necessary to build your location.

[ThomasT]

or try to design a DIY Z-Link < > ADAT format converter.

Where can I find the specs for Z-Link?

I understood you have these skills.
And let us know how that works ´cause I can imagine there are some users being interested in such device here.

I also need the time. I build this before I got a house ...

Interesting what you do for EUR 100,- 8hrs per day w/ the background how much investment was necessary to build your location.

I dont do it for a living. And 100 Euro is what you can charge here for underground bands.
And the rooms have one disadvantage: no toilet. And no permanent heating.

Funny these days I mostly do drum recording. Thats what most bands cannot do in their home setup.

[Bud Weiser]

Where can I find the specs for Z-Link?

Sonic Core ?
They are the XITE manufacturer.

I also need the time. I build this before I got a house ...

I see,- it reminds me on what I did before I got my house about 4 yrs ago.

I dont do it for a living. And 100 Euro is what you can charge here for underground bands.

Oops,- it was no offense, instead I was surprised reading and watching pics about studio construction, room treatments and measurements,- all very professional ... and then EUR 100,-.

And the rooms have one disadvantage: no toilet. And no permanent heating.

That´s perfect for underground bands !
I´d charge some extra bucks for these features !

Bud

[ThomasT]

Oops,- it was no offense, instead I was surprised reading and watching pics about studio construction, room treatments and measurements,- all very professional ... and then EUR 100,-.

Thanks.

Actually I studied electrical engineering / media technology. And for studio I became kind of expert in acoustics, too.
So this was for me. The room really sounds nice. The control room is very good, too. But only at the producers stool, there is the sweet spot.

I use creamware/scope for nearly a quater century now.