PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

DAW Win 10 64 new installation, GLITCHES!

I did the old school settings in BIOS and what I remember in Win, but still some glitches.

Is there something I am not aware off that you are?

there are so many possible sources....

do you have the pdf for v7? that has suggested settings. contact support if you want a copy.

otherwise, the first thing i would try is open the task manager and look at the details tab. while the glitches happen, look to see what is using a lot of cpu cycles.

did you allow windows to finish updating before trying to work? VERY important....

Hi Gary, yes, I do have this PDF, I forgot about it, I'll check it out.

Yes I did a full update.

cheers

windows must update ALL THE TIME.
turn it all on well before you want to use it. check for updates manually if must be. you will not have click-free audio if windows decides to check for updates while you are working. once it checks for updates, it won't check again for some 24hours. there is no such thing as a "full update".

i'll say it again. win10 is not xp or win7. it is a service, not a product. services can't be manipulated like products can be. use it more or less like it wants to be used, or you will have problems. if you let it be what it is, it will work very well. it won't conform to you well. resistance is futile.

Win10 here. I undid most of my BIOS changes. I do believe I left C1e, C5/6/etc disabled but C1/2/3/4 are enabled, as is EIST. I set a PCI priority of 64 for the system bus, and check my Nvidia drivers to make sure they don't give realtime spikes.

On that note, I have an AMD consumer board (not my Scope machine) which unfortunately has a KILLER networking stack. This isa bonded pair of intel wifi & 2.5G lan controllers and custom crap software. Solution? Use intel's drivers with a hand modified .ini (findable online) to add the device id's.

The point? The drivers cause me more problems than the hardware in this era, there's bandwidth aplenty on the system bus. Timing is key, and core wake up states with many core machines isn't as challenging as the single core era, in terms of keeping the Scope PCI cards fed. Also you're just generating a lot of excess heat with those the cpu at 100% even when the machine is idle, which is of course what the older machines we did this with were doing too. Since the machines respond well to the 100% cpu setting in the high performance power profiles, you can simply use this.

To do so, I load a few things before launching Scope and any ASIO software: I have 2 custom shortcuts (available on these forums from I forget whom) that toggle quickly between balanced and high performance states on both machines. On the HP mode, all USB/PCIe and wifi etc devices are set to NOT power down, when those devices are asked to wake up they can stall the system bus.

And then I use PowerToys which can override the screen portion of your power profile, and once set to 'keep computer on' or whatever it's called you can toggle the screen always on. Believe it or not, polling the screen can cause funky crap with modern GPU's. The other thing to be aware of is to go into your list of hardware audio devices and disable any Nvidia HDMI and Virtual audio outputs, as those can actually cause crashes with audio software drivers that keep them open. And can change the polling order of devices as your screen wakes and sleeps, which can confuse audio applications left idle that are NOT using the Scope ASIO driver.

The other reason I like server/workstation boards? Not only are you sure they don't have the KILLER etc type garbage, many of them come with no onboard audio "codec" implementation at all. Meaning there's even less onboard audio to worry about. Note I have enough other machines that this doesn't impede web browsing or other applications where I might want onboard sound. I never game on the Scope PC, it has nothing installed but what is necessary for Scope, Bidule and a few apps.

Been stable with not even a clock sync glitch between Scope and 4 "satellite" computers running RME cards connected via adat for as long as 7 days at a time, once I added a studio master clock. Not a single error detected in Totalmaster's bit monitoring mode when left in that state on each machine.

Thanks Valis, great advice

I‘m also very happy with Adat communication since a master clock was added. No more sync communication glitches.
(Scope, Pro Tools Adat Bridge, MPC4000)

garyb wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:23 pm windows must update ALL THE TIME.
turn it all on well before you want to use it. check for updates manually if must be. you will not have click-free audio if windows decides to check for updates while you are working. once it checks for updates, it won't check again for some 24hours. there is no such thing as a "full update".

i'll say it again. win10 is not xp or win7. it is a service, not a product. services can't be manipulated like products can be. use it more or less like it wants to be used, or you will have problems. if you let it be what it is, it will work very well. it won't conform to you well. resistance is futile.

Brother Gary, you handled some concepts I did not seriously repair on by myself, it's a very accurate description to say Win 10 is a "service" and not a "product". I think it is wise also, not to resist to it if you are going to use it anyways.

Resistance, yes, it is true for me. I do resist to these kind of runover attitudes Microsoft have with the world. For me it has been a scary experience to find out what is behind Win 10, it is overwhelming. I knew they were spying on people, but I never thought it would be to such an atrocious extent. This is dangerous!

I would not be surprised at all if our information as a whole would be given to something like the WEF and their world's control plans, that's the problem. I don't care if there are businessman people behind it analyzing everything we do so they make even more money. People willing to do money is not scary to me, but world CONTROL it is extremely scary.

I will keep updating it for sure, but at the same time I will keep debloating it quite often too through these scripts I am using, they work great.

Yes, thank you Valis, very useful advices.

Now, I have installed the Killer drivers from Gigabyte, should I uninstall them so?

I will go through the PDF Gary suggested me to check and these tips as well, thank you so much guys.

btw-

"resistance is futile" is the battle cry of the hive-mind cyborgs called The Borg in Star Trek Next Generations as they absorb all sentient life in the universe....

the servie vs product thing is something that m$ has said in their documentation.

Just walk and talk like 7 of 9 and you'll be fine in this universe of millisecond time.

I found the problem
: it was EIST and Hyperthreading that, despite the fact I had already disabled and saved the BIOS before restarting, they were still active. That's it, everything is ready now.

Thank you guys!

Nestor wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:12 pm I found the problem
: it was EIST and Hyperthreading that, despite the fact I had already disabled and saved the BIOS before restarting, they were still active.

How was that possible?
Which tweaks (in Windows and or BIOS ?) did you perform in addition ?



Bud

He has 2 BIOSes, it might be that he toggled one but it switched on boot.

Bud Weiser wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:23 am

Nestor wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:12 pm I found the problem
: it was EIST and Hyperthreading that, despite the fact I had already disabled and saved the BIOS before restarting, they were still active.

How was that possible?
Which tweaks (in Windows and or BIOS ?) did you perform in addition ?



Bud

How did it happened? I'm not sure, but I guess that as I have applied these changes just after flashing the BIOS, maybe I've done the changes in one of the BIOS and not in both of them. Now I have double checked and those parameters are in their place properly saved.

For some reason, after about 10 restarts, I cannot get into the BIOS and the only way to get back is to unplug the "C" drive, get into the BIOS (then it lets you in), switch the power off, plug the drive back, and then I have about another 10 restarts with the possibility to get into the BIOS. I don't even care about it, I never get into the BIOS if it is not while I'm setting-up the system, after that, I totally forget about it so it's fine.

I applied all the parameters you find in the PDF that comes with Scope V 7.1. I'm uploading it for you here, you can download it.

valis wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:07 am He has 2 BIOSes, it might be that he toggled one but it switched on boot.

Yeah, that's what I think too or that I've applied changes to only one of them, I don't get it, but it is not a problem now, fortunately.

I'm pretty happy overall, I guess that's it for now I've done the full migration already and killed the "C" drive of Win 7, I will use it for some extra samples.

I'll give here my opinion in this first few days of use of Win 10 for my DAW:

I have totally debloated it and will keep debloating it, at least every month, so I'm not worried about telemetry, OneDrive, games, shops, etc., etc., etc., everything's gone.

I have had two mayor updates from Microsoft to get into most recent versions of Win 10, they automatically applied themselves. As Gary says, it upgrades now and then and it is better to let it do his thing by itself.

It does take a little more resources from your PC than Win 7 did, we are talking about RAM usage. Perhaps, about 1 to 1.5 GB more RAM than before with Win 7, BUT "efficiency" it is in a whole different level, Win 10 64 it is way more efficient than Win 7 in many ways, I can't deny it. I can see it in the way programs run and the processes I used to do with them. There are no crashes whatsoever, everything wakes up and closes in a very fast way. Startup is just a few seconds away. Internet is much faster than before for some reason. Windows Defender did not cause any trouble whatsoever for me, not even a word from it, what I'm thankful for. Along it, I use ESET internet security, they don't collide or anything, they are good friends too.

Cubase works great on it. I did not have any rejection from Scope or my very old Pulsar I so far.

With the acquisition of a Nektar LX 49+, you get for free a copy of Bitwig 8 tracks, it flies in Win 10..., it really flies like a electricity flash..., it is so fast, I'm starting to love it, but I will talk about it much later, I still have to get into it for a longer period of time to judge how it really works, but so far, it looks promising to say the least.

The loading of VSTis is much faster and they seem to work more efficiently too. I don't know about the load capacity of the system yet, but I guess it's going to be very similar to what I had with Win 7 already.

Something funny: When I switched off the system with speakers on, Pulsar would make a sound kind of coming from up to down all the way, from a high pitch to a very low one. My wife tells me Pulsar is disappointed every time I switch it off, silly joke that I like. Now, the sound has changed and it does kind of a waiving sound, in pitch and dynamics, kind of: wow..., wow..., woa..., woaa., while goin deeper and deeper. I liked more the closing sound in Win 7, hehehe

Pulsar would load projects but would not display them correctly in terms of the order of the graphics, bizarre... Solution, very simple: you load any device on it, save the project with this device in the order you desire, problem solved.

There is MORE noise coming from the motherboard than before, when using Realtek drivers, for some reason, not a big deal at all or me. I use it only to monitor calls or something like that, not related directly with the quality of the sound in Pulsar, they are different things.

So far, so good. I am pretty happy as I say, because it is a much better system overall.

In the other hand, SECURITY in Win 10 is CRAZY!!! There is so much load on it, wow..., the difference with Win 7, in that regard, is really huge.

I thank everybody for the tips and ideas, they were very useful to me, sometimes, to get to know what to do, sometimes, to kill my ignorance about this new OS. Thank you!

i would advise against following those old guides as the computers and windows have gone too far out to make sense of it all.
disabling hyperthreading and EIST or turbo boost impairs performance by a tad and it's for granted... yet any benefits are not granted.

in my experience, 'spikes' are caused primarily by CORE PARKING these days - make sure it's OFF and for that you have to mess with registry and then, under power settings, mysterious toggle appears

the next source of 'spikes' is networking STACK, not necessarily the card / card's driver itself. pushing shitloads of network packets across and matching them to hundreds of rules does take processor's attention more than we'd like even if it doesn't look serious in task manager's graphs.

while troubleshooting scope's or any other audio interface clicking be sure to have eth interface disconnected and any wifi / bluetooth down.
that way you can assess best case scenario which should be click free at 256 samples buffer for sure, and perhaps at 128 too. even possible at 64.
the lower you go, the more alert you have to be about any unnecessary processes popping up.

as for castrating windows / disabling built-in services and apps - i would say there will always something be left which is not exposed to your control or just overlooked and in general picture it will still feel the same.

every pc i've ever built was temperamental in a bit DIFFERENT way, personalities, you know. they all reacted to tweaks a bit differently, and of course had a bit different selection of tweaks due to changes in OSes and hw / bioses.

it's funny but the best performance of my SCOPE i've gotten with this year's build, twenty five years after Pulsar's introduction
had to disable nothing but core parking and all exploit protections (to make it work at all)

If you are right, these are good news. I will check it out, thank you so much!

Core parking info (offsite)

The page does not exist. Well, don't worry, we already know, we can try making these changes. Thank you so much, because any bit of power you can get extra it is welcomed.