PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

valis wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:32 pm
This stripped-down Windows 11 version runs on as little as 2GB of RAM (and doesn’t require TPM)

Sorry,- this likn points to an "empty" pae on PlanetZ w/ the message:


Information

The requested page could not be found.



Bud

ctrl-c /v of the linktext works.
The tiny11 looks nice, because some bloat/spyware seems to be removed.
Nevertheless W11 is less compatible with W10 apps. To me W11 seems to be the successor of W8 or Vista.

nebelfuerst wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:32 am ctrl-c /v of the linktext works.
The tiny11 looks nice, because some bloat/spyware seems to be removed.
Nevertheless W11 is less compatible with W10 apps. To me W11 seems to be the successor of W8 or Vista.

Sorry no, it doesn´t work for me,- dunno why ...

But I´ve found it @Liliputting.com

when I copy the link,- it seems to be the same ... and works now.

https://liliputing.com/this-stripped-do ... quire-tpm/




Bud

Link fixed, including first reply. Sorry, was on phone when posting!

valis wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:27 am Link fixed, including first reply. Sorry, was on phone when posting!

no biggie,- thx.

Did you download and try "tiny11" on a studio-/DAW machine,- possibly w/ SCOPEv7 x64,- already ?
Or w/ RME latest drivers ?



Bud

Nope, just found it. I am building an Xite box soon, was going to make it Win10 because I'm using a Xeon board and don't want to add the TPM header (it's expensive for this board, about $250). Win11 require(d/s) that, and so this might very well go into that box.

What's unfortunate is that WinPE no longer allows consumer access, or I'd figure out a script for that and be able to roll my own. That would ensure I can repeat the process when feature updates come out. I just did an over the top install on my AMD box of Win11 to take it to 2H22 or whatever is current, and it was as simple as running the MS tool. That's going to be the main downside to that one...nonstandard update/upgrade process.

This is a great move for Microsoft and makes them more competative to Apple for Audio, who's been makin their DAW and O/S faster with their M1 Processors. Windows O/S always have been and still is the weak-point with the Juggernaught Intel processors. Apple owns all their own software and hardware to design it all like they wish, but Intel leans on Microsoft who screws it all up to a point.

Windows 10 certainly is bloated with forced-updates making it more bloated as time passes. I will be looking for this slim version of Win-11 when i build a new SCOPE XITE-1 rig. This is a good move for Microsoft and shows they atleast occassional think about us in Audio, etc who prefer a lean machine.

This is created by a 3rd party, fyi. All packages pass checksum on the installer, so the only modification is what was removed.

valis wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:08 am All packages pass checksum on the installer, so the only modification is what was removed.

So,- it´s possibly for Win11 what I did myself w/ Win10 using Win10 Privacy (?).



Bud

Approximately, but it seems this is considerably more stripped. We used to have a tool called NLite that would automate this process, and there have been XP ISO's that were similar. There's a lot more removed than just telemetry and advertised apps.

Also, there's the issue of perhaps being stuck on a single feature update of Win11, or conversely finding certain things re-activated after a major version update. I would read up and see what the considerations are, or perhaps this is indeed a good candidate for GaryB's sought after offline Win OS.

hmmm...would that help?

It would keep Win11 from reinstalling memory bloat and cruft after a feature update (these come 1-2 times a year). The downside is the constant stream of updates and plugins that users are accustomed to now would eventually face some .Net version or Win11 API update that requires a hotfix or feature update, so I would only do this if I was going to freeze the install in time. Not sure how many (besides you) understand this in this era...

that is why i questioned.
from a practical, studio point of view, a working setup that is never messed with is best. the way products are made and consumed in the present, everything must be in flux. everything must be connected to some cloud, for "music" reasons. a cut-down os might make problems for some. it sounds attractive to me. if the right things are eliminated, there should be a significant performace benefit.

i use a lot of older software, so i wouldn't mind reducing the network time. isolated, purpose-built machines are the antithesis of the current Windows paradign.

i guess i'm not offering any new news...

I think if you freeze the system, the issues will be like they used to. When eventually a client project demands you add something that's newerisher, chaos ensues. What fun.

In any case, this is suitable imho for deployed but short to medium term contracts for the next year or so. A solution like NLite or etc for the consumer again would improve matters considerably, but since it's a deterrent to the online interconnectedness of psychometric data gathering and control matrix...

Well I could add a few more dystopian buzzwords but you get the idea.

Also if I read up and it seems this has a directory method of controlling future updates and installs, ie if it seems it might be robust, I will report back.

By the way, I do have a few frozen systems here myself. My 2001 era dual Xeon was replaced by a 2015 Win10 box, and it's also largely a frozen install aside from normal updates. A stripped down Win11 would be even better, if the above concerns are attended to or answered. That and fixed 7.x ASIO drivers would mean I can parallel build the Xite and Scope box and a limited toolset mirrored on each and just work rather than fiddle.

My Macs are all pre-m1 and getting more frozen in time as well. My 2008 era dual Xeons don't run modern stuff well anyway, but even the newer iMac and MBP (pre-2015 for both) are no longer getting support from many companies. I have too many machines, so it''s again like the 2001 era Xeon. A given set of tools and workflows per box, and on the audio side we have the benefit that even machines from the middle of last century are usable if they sound good.

More info:

The smaller version of Microsoft's operating system includes the bare necessities like accessibility software, the Calculator, Notepad, and Paint. It also retains the Microsoft Store, so users can install whatever extra Microsoft software they need. The system comes with local accounts by default but can also use online accounts.

And

The sacrifice NTDEV credits the most for downsizing Windows 11 is the Windows Component Store (WinSxS). Without it, users won't be able to install new languages or major features. The developer says Tiny11 is "not serviceable," but confirms the system can receive .NET, drivers, and security definitions through Windows Update.
NTDEV assures users concerned about the security risks of a custom Windows version that Tiny11 doesn't contain anything from non-Microsoft sources. However, users anxious about privacy shouldn't install it expecting to be totally free of Microsoft's telemetry

So it seems that feature updates are out, but security features are in. That makes it somewhat analogous to the state of the Mac desktop, where the 'current branch' moves quickly and 3-4 years later software stops being supported by some devs who cater to the "current thing".

Also note that the system comes with local accounts enabled by default, which is a godsend in a multi desktop environment.

I still am in Win 7 64, very stable and happy, will not move from here unless there is a mayor reason for it.

Nestor wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:49 pm I still am in Win 7 64, very stable and happy, will not move from here unless there is a mayor reason for it.

Unfortunately, there is when using other´s native plugin bundles,- NI Komplete Ultimate (CE), Arturia V and FX collections, KORG Collection etc. (together w/ SCOPE on the same machine).



Bud

It is true Bud, Kontakt, for instance, it's a problem now, I'm stack at version 6.6.1, the last compatible version for Win 7, many new libraries will no longer be compatible for me. Nevertheless, I use some very old software and some VERY old libraries that sound great , and there you are. I have, literally, millions of possible combinations. It is such a richness of sonic realms and possibilities that I could spend years and years experimenting and creating new presets. I don't feel I need more that that right now.

Even Kontakt libraries I think, in a way, have already been covered very well and very efficiently, let's say, with violins for example, violins will always be violins, if you have it covered for different violin dynamics, basic articulations and speeds, a good violin ensemble and then a good solo violin instrument, then you have it all and you could, if you wanted, forget about violins for the rest of your life.

There are also, many free libraries that should not be free so good they are, that cover so much sonic ground that it is unbelievable. There are tones of free, very good software for natural drums, drum machines, synths, pianos, percussion, bases, you name it...

What is the difference you get from, let's say, Arturia V collection 8 vs 9? It is nice to have the latest synths added and all for sure, but you don't loose nothing "essential" to keep making music. If there is a sound you would like to have that is not accessible through such or such synth, you sure can create it with something else.

Let's face something that is behind all this marketing thing, the NEDD we all feel for new things, the "desire" for something new. It is a compelling feeling, it is so exiting and great to get something new, it is , but you may possibly not need it at all, but the feeling of getting something new is so ingrained in moderns society that we want to buy, not because you need anything, but because you want to FEEL this pleasure of the new. We want to bye... because, we want to buy... Yeah, that happens all the time.

For instance, Steve Lukather gathered more than 130 high end guitars, but he plays only two of them most of the time, and the black pearled one is the one he plays almost always. His friend Larry Carlton jokes about it telling the story sometimes. We are like this, we love "having".

Sometimes I go through what I already have, so to get to know it better and better so when I am composing I know exactly what I want and where I can find it, and IT IS A MUSICIAN'S DREAM what I have at home, it is a plethora of powerful tools at every level, in every stage of the production, including the mastering one. Why should I want more? If I try to answer this question with all honesty, I will have to say this: I want more because I love new staff, I love the sensation of buying new toys, and because I don't want to be judged by others musicians saying I'm a dinosaur stack in the past.

The market has created the perception (for us), that NEW IS BETTER THAN OLD, and this is not true, or not necessarily true. If you like and instrument, that's it, you like it, and time has nothing to do with it.

But the real story behind it, IS MUSIC, and I don't want to forget MUSIC, that is: what I feel, strong emotions, storytelling, cathartic psychological experiences that comes through it, love, pain, suffering, joy, happiness, compassion, war, stress, anguish, religion, mystical raptures, things like that. With so so so much technology, we could forget the MEANING of what we are, that is, musicians, composers, artists.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that many new plugins are "cosmetically different", smarter in workflow sometimes, but they seem to do exactly the same you have always done in this o that way. Then I'm older, I get tired faster than before, so I want to concentrate absolutely in creating music. I know that, one day, it's going to be too late.

The paradox is that everybody is interested in creating and using everything "vintage", so we use the new to go back in time and this going back is considered to be in the trend of "right now", to be fashionable among the young bumbum composers, hehe, crazy.

Well, after saying all this, if I was a rich man, with lots and lots of money, I would build a tremendously huge, super big ultra powerful computer, that is true two terabytes of ram, accepted, everything with the fastest SSD in the market, with the most powerful CPU, etc., no doubt, but even this, would not be "essential" for what I do as a musician, fortunately