Scope versions and OSs versions

A place to talk about whatever Scope music/gear related stuff you want.

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MaximKorobov
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Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by MaximKorobov »

Hello great PlanetZ crowd! I was 20 years somewhere near and now ready to join you!

I'm 90`s Korg fan (Z1, Trinity, OASYS PCI). I want to build "Optimus Prime" second computer full of DSPs: Oasys PCI, some Creamware stuff and even TC PowerCore PCI and UAD-1. There are many offers on eBay and Russian local second-hand store (Avito). The dilemma is to choose right platform:
- PowerMac G4 with OS 9 gives access to Korg's SynthKit. Even no one new synth will be created, I will make some screenshots and videos of this ancient miracle to the community;
- PC with Windows 98 gives free of change stable platform with more than 4 PCI slots. 3 will be occupied for Oasys PCI, PoCo, UAD, so only one for Creamware in case of G4 will be limited in expansion posssibility.

What's latest Scope version for these OSes? If seller can provide Scope 4.5 or newer keys:
- Where to get older (3.1c) versions? Seems like Sonic Core doesn't host it anymore
- Newer key will work with older Scope?
Anyone can say where to get table Scope version - Mac OS min/max version - Windows?
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valis
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by valis »

Too many systems in 1 old pc methinks. But sounds like fun!
Liquid EDGE
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by Liquid EDGE »

Scope Version 5 and upnwards supports xp and above on pc.
No Mac support.
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by Liquid EDGE »

And yes. The newer scope versions still support all the pci cards as well as the Xite (ofcourse)
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by Liquid EDGE »

And wow, I thought I used an old os system still running windows XP.. your saying windows 98.. wow
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garyb
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by garyb »

v4.5 will be the latest to work on both those old OS.
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astroman
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by astroman »

Some of my experience with G4 Macs (running OS9, which is required in this case):
the latest model is MDD (mirror drive door), which uses a server PSU with multiple small high speed fans.
It‘s known for it‘s exaggerated fan noise and it‘s picky about Ram modules (own experience).
The original was a dual boot release (OS9 and OSX), but latetest versions shipped with an OS9 block in firmware.
(this doesn‘t really matter anymore, since there a patched OS for so called „unsupported Macs“)

The Quicksilver model is much louder than I expected (with all fans running) and can develope significant heat inside if fans are slowed down too much or deacticated.

The only alternative with 4 free PCI slots is the G4 Digital Audio (or so...), in the 500 MHZ clock range.
There is an older 6 slot G3 model, but it‘s rare and expensive and extremely tricky to configure with all slots populated.

Whatever G4: avoid dual CPU models.

CPU clockrate is not that important. I‘ve moved a system from a (silent) G3/450 to a Quicksilver 800 (for it‘s extra slot) and it‘s not a dramatic difference if you process mostly DSP based stuff. In my case a Pro Tools 24 Mix System.
But I had a hell of tweaking to get the Quicksilver „silent“.

Btw the Korg software runs without a DSP card... all seems working, but it just doesn‘t output any sound... :D
(I found it interesting from history pov, but the learning curve too steep - Scope SDK is way (!) more elaborated)
MaximKorobov
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by MaximKorobov »

Thank you all. 4.5 is relative new and feature rich to use on Mac OS 9. Yay!
And thank you for avoiding dual-CPU systems and other notes. Yep, OS 9 block on FW800 and other latest G4 is a challenge to found suitable model.
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valis
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by valis »

You're nuts. We can dig it :)
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Bud Weiser
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by Bud Weiser »

astroman wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:04 am
Whatever G4: avoid dual CPU models.
May I ask ... why ?

I have a G4 Gigabyte Ethernet Dual 450 which I can boot into OSX Tiger (10.4.11) or MacOS 9.22.
It runs fine w/ RME Hammerfall 96/36 and Alex Hilton´s "Jamport" http://alexhixon.com/projects/jamport/ to connect a MOTU MidiTimepiece II.
Emagic Logic Audio Platinum 6.3.x works on both the Mac operating systems.
I leaved MacOs 9.22 primarily for Emagic Sounddiver 3.05.
AFAIR,- w/ MacOs 9.22, Emagic Logic AP uses one proc for audio and the other for MIDI.

So, why should one avoid such machine for SCOPE 4.5 Mac ?

I´ll have at least 1 Pulsar II left over,- and since Gary said (in the other thread) Cutmaster Pro runs native, I gave up the idea using the licence and thought about the experiment using the Pulsar II card in the Mac dual.

Is it evident SCOPE 4.5 Mac and DSP PCI doesn´t work on G4 GE dual 450 ?

:)

Bud
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astroman
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by astroman »

All classic DSP PCI cards had trouble with dual CPU setup in those vintage operating systems.
(it‘s the same with Pro Tools TDM and likely Powercore as well)
I dunno the tech backgound, but iirc dual CPUs weren‘t recommended for Scope in early Windoze environments either.
The system will run, but expect hickups sooner or later.
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garyb
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by garyb »

i never had dual processor problems after XP SP2.
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valis
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by valis »

3.1c fixed multiprocessor scheduling, I had both dual G4’s and a dual Xeon at the time.
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garyb
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by garyb »

that's right.
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valis
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by valis »

Creative Labs and many other companies had the exact same issue btw, MS had to release their own driver for onboard sound and SBLive/Turtle beach cards under NT 4.x & the first set of XP drivers so that simple things like Winamp could do audio playback without the audio buffers arriving from each cpu at different times (glitch/scrambled audio playback). So this was affecting much more than just S|C & pro audio companies, and I recall clearly people saying to me "noone will ever need more than 1 cpu" as a reason for NOT fixing this. We can thank MS and S|C etc for addressing this as even our lowly ARM embedded IoT devices are multicore now.
MaximKorobov
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by MaximKorobov »

Two more questions to be assured, that G4 is OK:
1. Keys are cross-platform? Since CW/SC are more Windows oriented, it could be issue to port keys. For example, TC PoCo Virus license is OS-locked;
2. Where to get 4.0/4.5 Scope and other software archives for Mac OS 9? SC site have 5.1+ versions.
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valis
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by valis »

1. Keys are tied to hardware, not OS or software. Gary can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the keys should work regardless of platform.
2. Good question, I have some archived versions of Scope on the server but no OS 9 afaik. If you find it and it's NOT on S|C's server, let me know and I'll add it to the archives here.
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garyb
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by garyb »

SonicCore does not archive the Creamware software.
write to support and i'll provide a link to v4.5
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yayajohn
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by yayajohn »

garyb wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:41 am v4.5 will be the latest to work on both those old OS.
So there's no way to load Scope 7 on Windows XP?
Was thinking of downgrading my Win10 32bit to XP (just to install my old Unitor drivers) but the Scope cards have v 7.0
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garyb
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Re: Scope versions and OSs versions

Post by garyb »

v7 woks in XP, but not OS9.
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