Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

The Sonic Core XITE hardware platform for Scope

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valis
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by valis »

My mains for my audio gear were run manually through conduit for this reason. And I ran my own ground to the box too, as I have in one other home where the refrigerator was causing noise in all a/c outlets until I did (fridges have horrid motors in many cases).

So, not really recommending no ground, nor lifting ground in audio cables when there is no ground.
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Spindrift
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by Spindrift »

In Sweden it is illegal to run your own ground or have anything connected to ground close to things not connected to ground.
If anything happens it would make me liable and invalidate insurance.

And it is actually dangerous...with completely ungrounded it is very unlikely that you will carry much current if you touch a part of a malfunctioning device since there will not anywhere for the current to go. If you introduce a ground path somewhere that the current suddenly has something to connect to through your body.

Just connecting to ungrounded socket is considered safer and is allowed unless the device is a class I appliance.
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valis
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by valis »

It doesn’t invalidate insurance when you have somebody do it professionally.

In any case, I presumed there were other components in your studio besides just the speaker and the Xite And so I provided some links that may be of some use, I’m giving no specific instruction because I also presume that once you are aware of the issues and options you’ll make your own choices to suit your studio Configuration and local statutes.
fra77x2
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by fra77x2 »

GaryB
if there is no ground at all in Greece, oh well...

In Greece we use "Schuko"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_ ... nd_sockets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko

It is made in germany so it works fine...

As I run my system here which runs 24/7 for about 2 years now I have never encountered a "PCI oveflow message". I mean ever.
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Spindrift
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by Spindrift »

valis wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:12 am It doesn’t invalidate insurance when you have somebody do it professionally.

In any case, I presumed there were other components in your studio besides just the speaker and the Xite And so I provided some links that may be of some use, I’m giving no specific instruction because I also presume that once you are aware of the issues and options you’ll make your own choices to suit your studio Configuration and local statutes.
Appreciate your input, just thought you where implying the same solution as Gary, connecting ground to something myself. Not an uncommon solution, but dangerous and a cause of liability.

I just have the Xite, speakers, computer, screen, mixer and a eurorack. If it was a bigger setup I probably would checked the wiring properly before plugging anything in.
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by garyb »

Schuko is grounded.
the tensioner clip carries ground.

there is nothing dangerous about sinking a metal rod into the ground and connecting a wire to it and connecting that to your box. if you have 3 conductor sockets, you probably already have a ground wire, but pulling wire through a wall(or even better, through conduit) does not mean opening the wall, necessarily. contact an electrician. estimates are usually free.
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by fra77x2 »

Gary are you an electrical engineer?
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garyb
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by garyb »

:lol:

well, i was in a previous lifetime. i have worked with genuine, real electricians, and i have pulled wire through walls and conduit. i have wired breaker boxes and installed grounds. i have built a few studios and encountered problems that needed to be fixed. i also have no problems hiring competent techs, for example when adding a transfer box to my house so that i can connect a generator safely in a power outage(my wife is 68 years old, i am in a rural area and we need power for heat from the pellet stove, i can't leave her in the cold...the refrigerator needs to run as well).

yep, i am qualified enough to know what's up. i know what i can get away with and when i need help.

i can read technical manuals.

i am old. i have been around. electricity is dangerous, but its not really that difficult to work with.

Schuko outlets should be grounded. check the spec.
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by fra77x2 »

In a previous life?

I just have to remind you that you can risk your own life freely but you can't put other peoples life at risk.

Knowing electricians means nothing, I also know doctors does this allow me to think I am also one?

Some professions are regulated by the governments for safety reasons.

I would suggest people here to restrain themselves telling their ideas or opinions when the matters involve any considerable safety risks.
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by garyb »

calm.

nobody suggested doing anything dangerous.
if you see my earlier post, i suggested contacting an electrician because estimates are usually free.

i never told him to do anything except fix the ground on the building. that is a safe and practical suggestion. i didn't tell him to stick his tongue in the socket.

i also told you that i have done the work under an electrician's watchful eye. that is something called an apprentice(hence my "other life" quip. i have done many things in my life). this kind of work is not even a little bit dangerous, unless you have a live circuit or do not know what you are doing. even if i were an electrician, that would still be true.

and yes, if you have enough contact with a doctor and ask enough questions, read the literature, and pay attention, it is possible to function as a doctor. that is the same way that doctors learn. it is the same for computer programming. before i would attempt to tear into all the scripts in my studio, i would ask someone like you fra77x2, then i would follow your advice or hire you, if it was beyond my abilities. there is no saving a fool from himself, as i am sure you know. after much foolishness on my part, i also know this to be true.

and please, governments may regulate for safety reasons, but lets not get confused into thinking that they actually care about what happens to anybody.

how is suggesting to fix the ground and contact an electrician safety risk? not knowing if there is a ground or not is a bigger safety risk. electrical devices are grounded for a reason, even though the AC ground can often be lifted safely if the device is connected to another device that does not have a lifted ground.

Schuko outlets are grounded.
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by fra77x2 »

Look I don't want to break your nerves or something, I just would like to remind that some stuff are dangerous and someone can probably attemp them only if they know what they are doing. Even if we assume they are safe we can't predict any possible situation which may hide some hazzards. Always consult qualified personel. Anyway. Thanks for your kind words, your advices are very useful and helpful I just think we should restrain ourselves when there are safety risks involved and we are not properly qualified to give such advices. You don't know who reads the responses or how he may misapply them. my regards.
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by t_tangent »

Spindrift, I recommend checking out some of the posts related to power supplies and ground issues written by Graham Hinton on muffwiggler forum. Graham is an authority on Power supplies and has some very useful insights on this subject, so def worth reading, for example
https://muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=194306
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garyb
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by garyb »

well, it is all good, but i AM qualified to tell someone to get the ground on the house fixed. i AM qualified to tell him that it is probably not a complicated issue, if the ground wires are in the walls already, and that if he has 3 conductor plugs, he probably has ground wires.

i apologize if anyone thinks or thought that i am telling someone to stick a screwdriver into their breaker boxes carelessly. let me be clear, don't do that!
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by garyb »

t_tangent, Mr Hinton said what i said.

people think that grounding the system is hard and expensive. it can be, but it usually isn't and it is worth the trouble.
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by dante »

So how would I know if my (upstairs bedroom) studio is grounded without sticking my tongue in the socket ? I have stuck my tongue in a 9V battery - to see if it’s flat it taste bitter - but I think 9v (DC) is my limit :lol:
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by garyb »

:lol:

they make testers to stick in the socket. safer than your tongue... :lol:
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valis
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by valis »

fra77x2, I thought you were an anarchist?

Clearly This forum thread isn't intended to be a legally sound discussion on power where we can be held liable for results from our answers. We are (as fra77x2 states) just on a forum. And yet this format is where I learned almost everything I know about Scope not to mention Logic, Cubase etc. & btw when it comes to injury, how you ground on the body makes a difference. If it goes across it's far deadlier than if it goes down. Ie, across the chest or etc. It also requires enough amperage to be a problem (at household voltages).

Breaking a ground on your audio cable doesn't actually 'break ground' for the whole system either. Rather it can stop a ground differential, aka "ground loop", which occurs when one piece of kit 'sees' the ground at a different level than another. One way of putting this is that there is 'current flowing across ground', but I prefer thinking that that the ground reference for both is different (differential, there is a *difference*). Semantics...either way breaking the ground reference between the two offending items doesn't always presume *there is no ground*.

When I fix issues in general, I would start at the head of the chain like always. So I pasted a link that has a fairly in-depth discussion about star pattern power distribution and the like. And if there's no actual ground, well that should be considered too as it's indeed before your power distribution. So as each thing came up, we can comment and learn on that point in the chain. I'll admit to not knowing Greek power standards or what a Schuko outlet is as I haven't had occasion to learn as much about overseas power, and while I could play google professor and firm up my cred here, I've got other things to do today.

As for "I have an Xite and don't have these issues" that clearly presumes all other components attached, and how they are attached, are similar. Doubtful this is the case, or he would not be having such issues. And note at the top of this thread, he was trying to RMA a unit and we did a simple Q&A to determine if something else was afoot. It seems that something else is *indeed* afoot, but by discussing power and grounding we don't necessarily know where the issue lies, we're just taking each point in turn. It's up to the person having the issues to still track things down.

What if it's just an offending piece of kit that's also connected to the Xite, and somehow the speaker is pulling enough current to *appear* to be the offending unit? Hence my suggestion to try the same thing with only those things connected. Troubleshooting should be done properly before ripping up the wall wiring imho...and I'm time limited so just contributing where I am able to comment effectively, that doesn't constitute de-facto answers that will solve an issue. That responsibility is Spindrift's alone, the same as with attending to not getting electrocuted while connecting studio gear.
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valis
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by valis »

Btw, in regards to the speakers popping when turning things off. I would not drive speakers without something between my soundcard and them. Passive or active, mixer or just monitor controller, the cost of fixing the speakers even once is offset by investing in something suitable. $300 speakers deserve any small format mixer you can find, $14,000 mains probably need something suitable (weakest link & all that). Recommended.
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by garyb »

valis, of course.
i just want to say again that if the house ground needs to be fixed, it should not require ripping up the wall wiring to do so. even if the ground wire was missing, there is something called fish tape, that would allow the wire to be added without destruction...

for example:
https://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-5633 ... 52102&th=1

of course, don't try this without training and experience. hire a pro.(see? i can learn)

valis, re: the mixer, monitor controller, etc., that is what i was saying about about a knob or mute switch being the only way to stop the pop from powering up or down.
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valis
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Re: Suddenly getting PCI Master Overflow

Post by valis »

Spindrift wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:12 pm @Valis
The pop was when turning off the speaker itself, not anything connected to it.
Gotcha. In which case internally it's not muting itself before powering down the amp. Maybe there's more than a relay amiss. You can easily run the Xite via headphones for a while and see if you still get PCI overflow messages, which is where this thread started and that's the problem imho we've been addressing.

Fwiw, my conduit was run on the outside of the house, by a professional. I had to clean up his work, it was untidy and even though he's licensed was not up to my personal standards. Not all experts are alike, nor do they necessarily know things outside their field of work (heavy machinery vs. low current audio etc). Noone is contesting that doing things in a manner consistent with local ordinances & etc can help with liability issues...

And again, noone even knows if you *need* to run a ground stake, we're just discussing things related to having power issues. Do we really need to worry about legal representation for forum discussions, really? :lol:
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