Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

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pdistefano
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by pdistefano »

Thanks Gary...

Just to clarify sample library is rarely ever used - really only when I get into Ableton productions and need to access some loops or the odd drum sample - have touched it for a year or more, it's just there as collected over the years, but appreciate the tip - will look at that - to clarify no sampling is being used for the Cubase session recordings / outboard mixing that I'm testing here


Motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-Z87P-D3. https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA ... -rev-20#ov

.....I can afford to invest as required (within reason of course!) in this stuff hence the mission to sort it out - I'd invest further/swap out whatever if it buys me time in avoiding further tech hassle......I'm good with the sound I'm getting, I'm just needing a stable well performing system for the DAW. I'm not disappointed by Scope for audio quality - it's great. I've come to know its limits with pci bus & DSP overloading and I've tried to work with it accordingly.....

I suppose the crossroad I think I'm at here is either roll the dice with a different motherboard (if that's considered potentially an issue - no one can really tell can they?!) (and/or trigger other components possibly??) - and that all takes a fair bit of time to pull apart, reinstall, reload, configure, test etc......just for the sake of persevering with Scope hardware for the DAW.........OR roll the dice with an alternative like RME (simpler, and more expensive option than a motherboard yes!), cross my fingers it's not the motherboard / works OK, stick the Scope pci's hardware in the spare older machine, hook in somehow as standalone if I want those toys) (I know it will work fine) and (hopefully) get on with the music!
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garyb
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by garyb »

the motherboard might work fine with a soundcard. soundcards are not realtime devices, so they are not as demanding of the system as Scope hardware, in some ways. that motherboard SHOULD work fine. for some reason, the computer isn't working correctly, apparently. normally, z87 is rock solid.

i'm sorry that i cannot give you a simple direction. the problem is that i cannot see you and your computer in action.

the problem could be anywhere in the system. motherboard is just an easy target. it could easily be a graphic card(i have seen a bad card create issues because a bad card will offload video jobs to the cpu), or a bad power supply.
pdistefano
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by pdistefano »

thanks again Gary.....no need to apologise, I'm not at all expecting anyone to be able to provide the specific answer for this issue remotely - its clearly not simple - rather I am super grateful for any suggestions or information that assists me in understanding how it all works and so I can make some informed choices moving forward.......
I think it's safe to say that for some (many!) scope users, with their particular combination of computer components (which as you say can be luck of the draw with manufacturing electronics quality control etc) if everything happens to come together well and work "as it should" then Scope hardware is happy, & happy days! :) . BUT when it doesn't it's a totally frustrating headf$%* :evil: .....Furthermore to that, it clearly depends on what you're trying to do with your audio and integrate it with Scope in both it's own environment AND also in conjunction with other things associated with the computer & set-up/software etc
For me personally, with what I'm doing, I'm simply pursing a system/studio that facilities my music creativity. Scope came into my life, I've danced with it, I've committed & invested to maintain it and have it as the heart of my studio and I'm grateful for where it's taken me in my musical and technical development - my set-up has expanded and improved dramatically due to the Scope system's potential.......whilst I'm nearly there I have hit the skids here with it for whatever reason.....I've tried......and so considering what I have and where I'm at, with my limited computer knowledge, I figure time spent in further technical troubleshooting (trying more various components in and out in the endeavour to create perfect conditions just to please Scope's super sensitive requirements) is just too open-ended.......enough is enough and there are alternatives ways of managing audio. I think I'll concede/retire Scope hardware to stand-alone duties and use/appreciate it as a solid piece of outboard hardware which I know functions just as well in this manner housed a 20 year old machine.......I'll leave the technical challenge of keeping scope alive and kicking into the 21st century to people who understand the computer nitty gritty properly with the capacity & interest to trouble shoot effectively......I'd rather spend the time writing a tune, busting out a groove, strumming the guitar or tinkling the ivories :D
I also realise that I've backed myself into a corner with the current motherboard even if I want to pursue an alternative sound card like say the RME pci-e route - this one only has PCI slots - selected at the time specifically for my scope hardware requirements :roll: .....
The journey continues - I'll let you know in due course where it takes me! :D
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garyb
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by garyb »

that seems reasonable.
again, it shouldn't be that much trouble...
MIGUEL ANGEL
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by MIGUEL ANGEL »

Hi. It happens to me too, there's no way
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by MIGUEL ANGEL »

64 bits don't work well
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garyb
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by garyb »

64bit works fine here.
Wolferich
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by Wolferich »

64 bits work here fine too. As stated before, everything is perfecr as long as everything works well. The moment you change something it usually gets difficult for a while until the new setup is established.

I was struggeling with the non functioning wave-driver that I would have needed for full integration of my video sftware (which itself is unflexible regarding accepted audio-drivers) and had to reconfigure my system setp therefore. My in/out is handled now with a rockstable rme device/driver and scope delibers through adat into it. For me this is ok and I have all I need.
pdistefano
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by pdistefano »

Wolferich wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 3:04 am ..... and had to reconfigure my system setp therefore. My in/out is handled now with a rockstable rme device/driver and scope delibers through adat into it. For me this is ok and I have all I need.
yeah that's the path I've resolved to taking now too......I've got other complexities in my system and I'm pushing s$%t uphill making it work together using Scope as the main I/O ASIO driver........if I had a Xite & v7 I may have been able to get it working more easily with a modern day machine..who knows.....fortunately I can still maintain/integrate Scope PCI but have it operating as a standalone from a separate older machine that works fine but not needing to worry about being super careful/fussy with configuration to mitigate ASIO issues - I'm so done with that particular dance
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valis
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by valis »

Xite isn't necessary for v7.

Still, I am quite happy to share that I've decided to use Scope standalone since about 2008/9. Keep in mind also that S|C at least still exists, compare to almost all of the DSP solutions from the era when Scope debuted (Korg OASYS, emu/creative labs cards, UAD's first dsp chip (which was a "failed" gpu) are all not only not supported at all period (unlike Scope 7) but you'd also be lucky to get them working on an older system even IF you had all the required registration info. Good luck recovering that if you don't.

We should be greatful that Scope is still working after all of these years. The only other company in my stable that has also supported products this far is RME, as I still have a PCI HDSP card connected to a Multiface I in here and it still gets driver updates as well, and works great in a PCI based system. So I can heartily recommend RME alongside Scope, so much so that my Scope system now connects to 4 other computers, 3 of which are running RME solutions.
Wolferich
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by Wolferich »

Yes indeed, we can all be very happy that Scope ist still supported the way it i. And yes, we might also have additional wishes but maybe some of the might still fulfilled onec in a while (garyb - xtc Haha).
pdistefano
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by pdistefano »

OK, reporting back with how I resolved my problem here.

My solution, was quite simply separating the DAW from Scope with a (significant/serious) upgrade to the main machine (i9 12 core, professionally built & configured/tuned etc) to run Cubase 10 in W10 and associated plugins......finally (FINALLY!!) now have plenty of headroom and can throw whatever I want at the sessions without a single click or pop....latency is something stupid low like 1.3ms or something insane...

It's been a win win as I've also managed to retain the Scope (via a similar set-up to valis) in that it's now 100% standalone, with the main DAW machine feeding the Scope "mixdown rig" via RME RayDAT, which then feeds the converters and then out into analogue world......and it works flawlessly for what I'm doing, so I now have the best of 3 worlds 1. current DAW 2. Scope envronment 3. Hardware / console...Happy Days :)

The Scope environment is slaved to the RME, and once it locked in haven't had any sign of clocking issues or interference

Interestingly, the Gigabyte motherboard I was previously struggling with (with Cubase/Asio) now works fine/perfect with Scope PCI in standalone - no ASIO - ( I suppose not surprising since no other applications are competing for resource, so Scope is "happy")

So I guess as long as these older machines and cards continue to function, I reckon I've found a way of future proofing and preserving my Scope systems for years to come, regardless of whatever Steinberg or Windows or whatever chooses to do

Have learnt a fair bit along the way - seems that Cubase 10 is a different beast to previous versions - apparently they've done something funny to the hybrid playback engine so pretty much ASIO guard must now be on all the time to function properly at low latency, if you turn it off it apparently cripples the way it manages something to do with "scaling to threads" ( I really don't know exactly what I'm talking about here with that computer/tech stuff - all I know is that it sucked on the old machine, but is now flawless on the new one)..........am I correct in understanding that Scope is problematic with hyperthreading, and it must to be disabled? So if the latest DAW's are coded to rely on hyper threading for performance, and focused/written more for native performance then assume that's asking for trouble /doomed to couple with Scope in the same machine......possibly explains why my old dual core windows XP with Cubase SL3 (circa 2005 build) worked arguably better than Cubase 10 trying to run on a i7 quad core with hyper threading disabled.

Anyway I may have some of the technical detail wrong there, but the long and short of it has been quite simple for me & my set-up (which I will post pics of at some point) that Scope is clearly much happier as a standalone system

Thanks for everyone who commented here, (particularly Gary & valis) for their efforts in trying to assist me with resolving. Am pleased to be able to be moving on and getting back into making music :)
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valis
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by valis »

Lets hope we all fare as well as you at getting back to it :)
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by spacef »

all my problems gone since I use an SSD for audio projects. I'm on Xite-1 + win7.
Then, it may come back when the CPU is overloaded (quad core x58 3 Ghz of 2012) .
I hope it helps.
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dante
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by dante »

PCIe for Scope, TB3 for UAD2, USB3 for ext SSD, M2 for internal SSD. Usb2 or 1 get wifi, MIDI and dongle duties.
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Bud Weiser
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by Bud Weiser »

dante wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 2:48 pm PCIe for Scope, TB3 for UAD2, USB3 for ext SSD, M2 for internal SSD. Usb2 or 1 get wifi, MIDI and dongle duties.
Is PCIe, TB3 and M.2 NVMe x3 (or x4) simultaneously possible w/o recognizing problems like IRQ sharing when executing "msInfo32" ?
Which mainboard, if yes ?

merry x-mas ...

:)

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dante
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by dante »

No idea - I don’t fiddle with low level stuff unless I have to. It’s a Gigabyte Z390 I think :

https://www.forums.scopeusers.com/viewt ... 65#p342565
pranza
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by pranza »

try scope v7, ASIO might behave better in that one.
i _feel_ v 5.1 ASIO is oldschool and not so good with multithreading, and newer windows also have various tricks for improving audio performance, but the driver must use them... audio priorities and what not. that's not present in old drivers...
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Bud Weiser
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by Bud Weiser »

pranza wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:34 am try scope v7, ASIO might behave better in that one.
i _feel_ v 5.1 ASIO is oldschool and not so good with multithreading, and newer windows also have various tricks for improving audio performance, but the driver must use them... audio priorities and what not. that's not present in old drivers...
Should come w/ Scope v8.

:)

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valis
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Re: Scope PCI cards clicks & pops - Windows 7 & Cubase 10

Post by valis »

Incorrect anyway, with Scope 3.1c the driver properly supported multithreaded Windows environments as far as the driver is concerned. GUI is a different story, and it isn't about multithreading at that point but about API. Desktop compositing changed a lot from the 5.1 and 7.x era, and if 5.1 is 'more stable' it might have as much to do with the windows tweaks you're doing as anything else.
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