Scope 7

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roberflash
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Re: Scope 7

Post by roberflash »

Scope 7, has been more than three years without updating and correcting errors,
Why bugs are not fixed and samplers are run on x64 systems.
We have opted to support a system that is incredible, flexible, varied, etc.
But we do not see anything being done to complete it and we see ourselves with systems full of problems and unfulfilled promises.
Please make Scope 7 what it promises and it works without having to fight computers, operating systems, bandwidths, etc.
We are musicians, sound engineers, creators, artists, we don't want to spend our time adjusting parameters and motherboards.
Thank you in advance
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dante
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Re: Scope 7

Post by dante »

Cuz theres only one dude doing it ? And anyways he's working on 7.1. Anyway no such problems here. Maybe trumpet players don't want to wash mouthpieces, or violin players resin their bows, coz u know, they are creative musicians, not hygienists or technicians :lol:
Last edited by dante on Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dante
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Re: Scope 7

Post by dante »

.
roberflash
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Re: Scope 7

Post by roberflash »

Either way, we've spent thousands of euros on creamware / scope hardware and software, most of us.
Giving economic, technical and market support.
We are unconditional users and we wait and wait in the hope of being served and we have not realized that our systems are dying.
You only have to enter the threads problem solving, tips and trics, tech talk, etc. To see how most users have problems, they spend a lot of money and time adjusting computers and getting really frustrated.
Please dedicate resources to make the system really work as promised.
Thank you in advance
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Bud Weiser
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Re: Scope 7

Post by Bud Weiser »

roberflash wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:16 pm Either way, we've spent thousands of euros on creamware / scope hardware and software, most of us.
Giving economic, technical and market support.
Creamware Scope ...
They´re gone long time ago,- no ?
roberflash wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:16 pm We are unconditional users and we wait and wait in the hope of being served and we have not realized that our systems are dying.
Ehhmmm ...
You don´t have realized ???
roberflash wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:16 pm You only have to enter the threads problem solving, tips and trics, tech talk, etc. To see how most users have problems, they spend a lot of money and time adjusting computers and getting really frustrated.
Yeah, it´s the same like in other user forums,- you meet the users having problems.
roberflash wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:16 pm Please dedicate resources to make the system really work as promised.
Well, when reading your post above, I recognize you expect(ed) the Creamware Scope hardware & software working like any Windows- or any other ASIO soundcard.
Or do I mistake you in some way ?
roberflash wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:16 pm Thank you in advance
I wonder where you think you are.
Just only complaining here is somewhat senseless because it´s a independent user forum, not a Creamware or Sonic Core support forum.
Here are lots of nice people trying to help, share experiences, have some OT conversation and such.
Social media you know ... :D

When owning S|C products,- there´s support http://scope.zone/index.php?id=61&lg=en ...

When you own Creamware gear only,- not so much anymore.
http://scope.zone/index.php?id=61&lg=en&d_2338=97

Did that help ?

Yes [ ]
No [ ]

:)

Bud
roberflash
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Re: Scope 7

Post by roberflash »

Same attitudes, same results.
You don't know me, you don't know what products I have, you don't know how I use them, however you assume that I have no idea what I do and you make easy jokes.
On the other hand, you are very aware that I am right in what I am saying and you have also spent thousands of euros on these products, like many people who have been in this forum since almost the beginning.
I have received help when I have needed it, I have tried to help when I have seen colleagues from this forum in distress.
It may even double your age.
You prefer to laugh at me and treat me like I'm a troll.
But you know I'm right in what I say and you suffer it every time you turn on your computer.
If you like being a fanboy, perfect, but please respect the criticisms made from respect.
If you want something to change, act differently.
Thanks and apologies for my poor command of English
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Bud Weiser
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Re: Scope 7

Post by Bud Weiser »

roberflash wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:17 pm Same attitudes, same results.
You don't know me, you don't know what products I have, you don't know how I use them, however you assume that I have no idea what I do and you make easy jokes.
On the other hand, you are very aware that I am right in what I am saying and you have also spent thousands of euros on these products, like many people who have been in this forum since almost the beginning.
I have received help when I have needed it, I have tried to help when I have seen colleagues from this forum in distress.
It may even double your age.
You prefer to laugh at me and treat me like I'm a troll.
All the above is just only your interpretation.
And,- you mean you double my age ?
Congrats for being 130 :lol:
roberflash wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:17 pm But you know I'm right in what I say and you suffer it every time you turn on your computer.
which is just only your assumption ...
roberflash wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:17 pm If you like being a fanboy, perfect, but please respect the criticisms made from respect.
If you want something to change, act differently.
Thanks and apologies for my poor command of English
fanboy ... :lol:
You´re really funny.

When you´re not satisfied w/ your product,- what shall we do here ?
We don´t code the software as also don´t manufacture the hardware.
So,- when it doesn´t work for you in any way, sell it and buy something else.
Or wait until it does ...
But in the age of 130,- I´d think of that twice too !

:D

Bud
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dante
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Re: Scope 7

Post by dante »

I think by double in age he meant that spending so much time on debugging might double your own age - not that his age is double yours or vice versa.

Anyway, Scope like any other system has its problems, even it only has a development team of one. In that case, I only use it for what I know it can do, like Mixbus, UAD and Reason.

I can crash any of my systems independent of the other if I try making them do things they cant do.

So simple answer - only do things you have tested, saved as templates and stop trying to do things that crash. Since 2 decades I've been doing just that on all subsystems. Yes I know what the bugs are, spend 1% of total music making time dealing with them, another 1% on updating them then spend the other 98% of the time making music. I don't rely on one interface, I don't rely on 1 core, SSD or softwares but have redundancy built in.

If something impacts your workflow too much - get some redundancy, remove bad part and move on. Scope is most likely never going to have massive or fast development ever so just use it for what it does and that's your bang for buck. And yes, I'm a fanboy. I'm a fanboy equally of Scope, Harrison, UAD, Propellerhead, Kontakt and all the VST vendors I use. I just count myself lucky I can use them all on the one awesome system 😻
roberflash
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Re: Scope 7

Post by roberflash »

Thanks Dante, you are right.
I have been using my Scope based equipment for many years, supporting the three companies the system has gone through.
We can simply read what other forums say about us, for example gearslutz:
"The people on the Scope forum are like LDS teens on their first mission and unable to say anything remotely critical about it"
And with the comments that some make, it turns out that they are right.
roberflash
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Re: Scope 7

Post by roberflash »

Thanks bud weiser, for putting on the table the best lesson you can give:
I gained a valuable lesson: Don’t invest in proprietary technology that’s been basically abandoned.
Sonic Core will appreciate your contribution, when, encouraged by your comments, we sell the equipment purchased from them and we will no longer criticize them.
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valis
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Re: Scope 7

Post by valis »

roberflash, I'm also on Gearslutz and have participated there quite a bit over the years. It seems to me that you might be cherry-picking your quote there to suit your opinion-which you are of course entitled to.

Scope 7 came along largely unannounced and unexpected, and for those who had 5.1 at the time it offered enough to be compelling as an upgrade, and it was not expensive at all. In fact there were 3rd party devs who threw some very nice extras into the pot. There are a few things that have never made the transition to 64bit like STS Samplers & Sequencers, but this is due to the native resources they use. Since there are native solutions to these things (sequencing and samplers), the only thing that seems amiss to me is slave to BNC clock with Xite.

What is it that you're lacking from Scope 7, personally? From reading your posts I can't tell.
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Bud Weiser
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Re: Scope 7

Post by Bud Weiser »

roberflash wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:13 am Thanks bud weiser, for putting on the table the best lesson you can give:
I gained a valuable lesson: Don’t invest in proprietary technology that’s been basically abandoned.
Sonic Core will appreciate your contribution, when, encouraged by your comments, we sell the equipment purchased from them and we will no longer criticize them.

Man, please don´t jangle my nerves !
When you don´t get, just only complaining makes no sense,- nobody can help you here.
When you want some help, report the issues you have w/ SCOPE and ask for soulutions.
If there are any, you´ll get ´em here.

Otherwise, you´re just only trolling.


Bud
roberflash
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Re: Scope 7

Post by roberflash »

The only thing I'm claiming is in this thread:
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35221
roberflash
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Re: Scope 7

Post by roberflash »

For me and for all users
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valis
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Re: Scope 7

Post by valis »

roberflash wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:36 am For me and for all users
How very populist of you.
roberflash wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:31 am The only thing I'm claiming is in this thread:
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35221
I listed the repeatable issues that I'm aware of from that thread in my post, aside from some smaller issues like certain devices having an incorrect GUI state for a specific control or etc. I'm not here to encourage Bud or anyone else into divisive behavior, but I would again ask what YOUR specific issue is that you're having a problem with?
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dante
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Re: Scope 7

Post by dante »

roberflash wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:03 am "The people on the Scope forum are like LDS teens on their first mission and unable to say anything remotely critical about it"
Because the criticism is old ground and adds no value. Any issues with Scope are basically a byproduct of the market position Scope has found itself in namely that it didn't take off as much as many other products so therefore expecting anything like the a development effort of UAD, Logic, Cubase etc is unrealistic. Simply that the $$ aren't there to have massive new devices, workflow and NAMM shows in it.

Any downsides that I've had with Scope in the past few years are well documented in the bug forum where they belong. Maybe they will be fixed or maybe not but they are in no way show stoppers. Other than that use Scope for what it does well & get something else for what it cant do.
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valis
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Re: Scope 7

Post by valis »

Indeed. They're not show stoppers, we're aware of them so they can be worked around.

More to your initial point, during the lifetime of this product the norms for the software ecosystems around us have changed. Today's mainstream/general use software sees a constant stream of updates and UI changes. The perception when this does not occur is that a company is 'not serving their customers' or a product is 'dead'. Perception != reality of course.

In my professional software realms (Audio, 3D, Graphics etc) a constant stream of updates rarely brings major improvements while it does bring the potential for instability, new incompatibilities and/or other major issues. As an example from my 3D work, Blender 3D has a large userbase these days and I often see their users on forums browbeating Autodesk 3DSMax/Maya (and Substance, Houdini) users that their product is 'dead' because it doesn't have new feature X or Y from Blender. What this indicates to me always is that this is a lone home user who tracks 'new shiny features' to stay excited about a product and play with new toys.

There's nothing wrong with that, and there's a huge market out there for software that fits this 'not just changing but changing OFTEN' model. However to look at my example again, finding full production pipelines that rely on blender is rare, it still seems to be used mostly by small software dev firms (especially as a Gaming/VR/AR toolset to import/massage/export models) and for free or crowdfunded projects where the cost of entry to a tool like Blender is a major bonus compared to other toolsets. However the results are also always telling, while the lighting and shading features where Blender has had some programmer's focus tend to be shown in the output of these projects, the overall aesthetic is still instantly identifiable and the tool just isn't as ready for a full pipeline as those users might think.

iZotope is an audio product that seems similar. Overall i would say the quality of their software is great, but the constant stream of major updates is actually an annoyance to someone who uses their products professionally. Major UI changes and increases in horsepower required to fuel those GUI changes, minor usability improvements across multiple generations, and of course a lovely income stream from users who jump on feature-laden marketing updates when they may actually be fine sitting out a few generations. Over the last few years this has turned their product line into a bevy of very similar products that are marketed based more on specific use cases sold at constant firesale prices.

Compare to Scope. I would love to see Holger release an update, just as any of the rest of us would. However my cards have been running almost nonstop for almost 19 years! I certainly would trust ANY of my other software to this degree. Can I do things to make it crash? Sure. Do I know what these things are and avoid them in my workflows? It would be foolish not to.

Another (graphics) comparison again, as it seems Adobe has found an interesting middle ground. Since Creative Cloud launched many people have gotten used to the subscription model (which costs about the same as skipping a generation of updates before--or the equiv of jumping from CS4 to CS6). There is a constant stream of software updates & fixes as well. However the ACTUAL changes in workflow and usability are relatively minor, and the core Adobe tools have actually changed LESS since CS6 than they did with major product updates before. Of course the installed userbase & team of people who create & deliver these tools dwarfs SonicCore by magnitudes making the comparison meaningless in that regard. What I do find interesting however is that the subscription model seems to have reduced the 'featurism' that is present in other modern software and this is something I appreciate as a daily user. And for those that don't derive an income directly off of using Adobe software, there's a fairly large selection of alternatives from open source to those that cost the equivalent of a 1-month fee for Photoshop for a full release.
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YISH313z
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Re: Scope 7

Post by YISH313z »

Still no for sampler on 64 bit?

IO have one 6chip card left hoping one day to use it for samplers.
Rebu72
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Re: Scope 7

Post by Rebu72 »

If they have probem fixing big bugs they can at least fixing the most simples, like for example the inverded LR in Wave Source and similar.. some of this silly bug stay on this platform from long long time.. Just an idea
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Bud Weiser
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Re: Scope 7

Post by Bud Weiser »

valis wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:51 pm Indeed. They're not show stoppers, we're aware of them so they can be worked around.
Well,- there´s not a workaround existing for everything.

I think most problems makes ancient 3rd party stuff,- not what comes w/ new SCOPE versions,- except:

For the 1st time, SCOPE samplers don´t work on 64Bit systems anymore,- as also all the related "devices" created by using STS type sampling-OSCs.
That´s indeed something I´d wish to see working again too,- and I truly believe it will work in future,- just because it´s under the hood of S|C SCOPE developement.

But when there won´t come a decision for not supporting some old stuff anymore, I´d see no light on the horizon.
There are devices in the shop which won´t see any relevant updates/upgrades anymore,- and one "brand" is well known for causing issues on XITE.
They prefer selling hardware synths now,- being based on SCOPE SDK b.t.w..

Users expectations rised !
You cannot tell today´s users you won´t be able to use a synth w/ only 1 or 2 voices,- period.

Even ancient CW SCOPE synths work better on XITE,- surprisingly the very old stuff coming w/ SCOPE since decades.
And they sound (good /enough,- at least for me).
There´s no reason not to use p.ex. Blue Synth on XITE and on 64Bit systems w less than 8 (or more) voices vs. the synths from "Z" company.
And Blue Synth sounds good, replacing some analog synths or working as a layer w/ these.
ALL the S|C branded synths work w/ the polyphony the "originals" provided.
I also went back to "Inferno" and others,- and they all do well (when you can play).
These devices were obviously developed in times where keyboardplayers were what they should be ... PLAYERS !

It might be, "music programmers" have different demands though,- but I´m not one of these.
I´m a player.
DAW work in the sense of recording, mixing and mastering isn´t my main task.
In fact, I´d prefer to hire others for that tasks and even I know we have great toys available in SCOPE to get the job done !
They are invited to work w/ my DAW and checking out SCOPE in that department. :D

So,- Holger D.,- please concentrate on the basic and actual S|C software and hardware stuff for SCOPE v7.1 and make work perfect what you can.
I´d really like to use the STS because Halion and Kontakt was never able to replace AKAI and EMU hardware.
That´s what was used to make the big hits in the golden times of music !
It will still sound the same when we´re able to use it in SCOPE 64Bit again.
Improve MIDI preset system incl. MIDI CC assignments for what you can,- Minimax, Prodyssey, Vectron and V-player, STS and what´s already available.
XITE,- at least for me, should be the new NOAH.
There are tons of soundcards out there using ASIO and it´s "o.k." I can use SCOPE hardware as an audio card too,- but at least my expectation was getting some great soundmodule and audio tool box.
That´s what it is, WHEN total recall incl. MIDI CC assignments per device will work flawlessly.
It´s the most important stuff not working as expected, followed by the sample OSC issue in 64Bit systems.

Since we know,- ALL the FX/dynamic plugins and mixers work well in SCOPE, PCI, XITE, 32 and 64 Bit,- there´s no reason telling the public SCOPE doesn´t work.
But the instruments and MIDI preset system REALLY needs some overhaul.
In fact, it needs perfection/ total recall reliability !

I know there are protected devices which possibly cannot be fixed at all.
Why not getting rid of that s##t and create new ones ?
valis wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:51 pm Compare to Scope. I would love to see Holger release an update, just as any of the rest of us would. However my cards have been running almost nonstop for almost 19 years!
That´s only the cards.

The (3rd party) devices, not working perfect on "the cards" already, are still the same.

:)

Bud
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