PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

The new Moog Modular System 55 looks extremely fun to mess with. Sounds awesome!
Here's a video from Sweetwater and a couple links from Moog explaining the history of the Moog Modular System and the newly released version, with audio demo's in all videos below. There is only a limited number of the new version created (55) and it costs around $35,000 so not many people will have one of course. They used original documentation and parts to re-create it so even if it is not 100% exact it should be close enough. If one does not have $35,000 laying around the house there is also a new modular rumoured to be coming from Roland for their low-budget AIRA line of products deduced from a picture accidentally posted by Roland on Facebook (but not officially confirmed). So all is not lost, the Roland AIRA Modular can be a consolation prize for some. AIRA Modular may even be compatible with Eurorack. The Moog Modular System 55 seems like a dream synth to own and to play with, very alive sounding and the on-the-fly sounds are musically inspiring. Awesome stuff!

Sweetwater demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEiN-WRnVXk

Suzanne Ciani | System 55: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnC9pu65pa0

Back to the future sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w6qWiEx8BQ

EDITED

cwmod? w_ellis? sharc?

Hmm, I used to be into DIY synth stuff a long time ago... I would never be able to afford something this big though. Looks nice, but if you're good with schematics and can solder, you can probably build one good enough for quite cheaper. I wouldn't want something that huge, takes too much space. I can't believe they did concerts with those things!

-Tom

ronnie wrote:cwmod? w_ellis? sharc?

CWM modules for S|C MODULARs, BC Modular & SCOPE Sync ... maybe Flexor III too if urgently needed.
Where do you get that amount of modules for a total recall modular system for that money ?

Even for me as a hardware fan, a real big modular synth is too bulky and much too cumbersome to handle.
Creamware and NORD solved that problem long time ago.

For a synth enthusiast, S|C XITE-1 is worth it´s price alone for the modular system running on DSPs.
It´s only a small fraction of the price you have to pay for a hardware modular w/ less features.

There will never be free modules for a hardware modular like we got from CWmod and BCM-team and up to now there´s no total recall for a real modular.

I´d say the Moog Modular reissues are just only for collectors (and/or rich nerds).

Bud

you can have a moslab version for a lot less cost

tlaskows wrote: I wouldn't want something that huge, takes too much space. I can't believe they did concerts with those things!

-Tom

Yea, I'm sure taking it to concerts was back breaking work. I'm sure it kept musicians in good physical shape for carrying that big monster around seems equivalent to lifting weights . Keith Emerson tho seemed to love his Moog Modular and had no problems performing with it at concerts. According to the Youtube documentary his group ELP traveled with 3 or more truck loads of equipment. Seem to be really extravagant. Many of us Musicians today would hate if we have to carry even the smallest objects such as a ilok with the laptops to a gig (i would'nt have a dongle in the Studio either tho). Then again Engineers/Musicians of today seem to irrationally complain about everything.

@Bud Weiser... I completely agree, SCOPE Modular 4 is King, and in the Modular Systems world it is as good as it gets, no doubt in my mind. That said, i'd still love to get my hands on that Moog Modular , and if i got my hands on the Moog Modular i would'nt see it as useless either cause i would'nt be trying to compare it to SCOPE's Modular or replace SCOPE Modular 4 with it, so there would'nt be a let down in that regard; when looking at features, convenience, flexibility, etc wich SCOPE's Modular obviously wins at. I see the Moog Modular System 55 as different sound, different workflow, different purpose. I would'nt try to make the Moog Modular a main go-to /primary tool for music creation like SCOPE Modular but just a tool to produce different and experimental sounds occassionally and sort of a toy to have fun with wich sort of agrees with your collector/rich nerds demographics assessment. Sometimes a different way of producing music can be inspirational and lead one into unique and innovative directions. Tho the Moog Modular is'nt necessary in my eyes it still can be fun and benificial if one could afford it. Horses for courses I guess. It's more of a luxury item or as you put it a collector's item or for rich nerds. But it looks fun and sounds great wich are good enough reasons for me to get one if i had the money to buy one.

Moslab is french aren't they ?

It's funny because the first module up on the left of both Moog Modular System 55 & Moslab video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... on4JvC4g1E) are EXACTLY the same !

(filter bank, apparently : http://www.mos-lab.com/#!914/c1b7d) How is it possible ?

because the schematics are available when moog went bust many moons ago for fixing shematics were released so that the moog products could be still maintained

now from the schematics new pcbs can be made with small design changes to make then run better and using newer parts available

i think you will find that the moslab have more modules also plus any mu 5u modular module has also been created that can interface with the moog modules like the

http://www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm

or the diy one

http://www.analog-monster.de/moogmodular_en.html

moslab at a fraction of the cost
http://www.mos-lab.com/

http://www.synth-werk.com/m.cfm

most oscillator design are based on saw vco cores using matched transistors

then there is a exponential convertor this is usually a dual transistor but the problem with these is that as temp rises they can drift and so go out of tune

they glue these together so that they are thermally coupled but they will only work over a certain range earlier moog modular used this design but it was not stable and only was stable over a limited octave range

now arp designed a better expo convertor they did this by using a better heater to keep the expo stable they did this in potted modules

this comprised of a small pcb some insulator then they would use silicon to fill the hole compartment and then resin the bottom this helped keep the whole module at the same constant temp and gave a larger octave range with out stability problems

in the minimoog they started to use the ua726 which is a can which had a current mirror and a heater core which kept the expo very constant

you will find that most manufacturers used this can roland in its system700 and 100 and in lots of the earlier analog synths used this

so with scope there is no problems with heat so a better range can be calculated the problem with dsp is aliasing

now not all pwm waves are made from saw cores some times first they are made into a triangle wave by wave shaping then a pulse/square wave is created from using a comparator by using a a inverted version to the comparator b input by setting a threshold the waveform wpuld go through the comparator and when it reached its threshold level would switch to the b input which is inverted giving you the opposite shape now you can get various different waveshapes by the input waveshape a tri/pwm wave is different fro a saw ramp up wave

a sin wave is created from a tri wave and clipped so that the peaks are removed then a smoothing circuit is used to smooth the edges so that it slews and becomes a sin wave

this can all be done in modular by your self or by the sdk like sharcs multi oscillator

now you have a moog ladder in modular 4 you have pitch control modules you have linear and expo vca you have building blocks to create many filters
you have comparators to create complex waveshapers you have bandpass lowpss and hipass filters to make the moog resonator

i actaully made that module but with added cv control for level and q which is easy in modular not in hardware you would need 2 extra pcbs to implement that on hardware

you have the polymoog resonator in bc modular which is a new moog module available which was not available when the moog modular was originally available

I would think it's more fun to buy your modules from different companies one at a time.

We can do, through virtual means, everything a 55 can do, and even more… so, beyond the fun and the undeniable delight of playing directly with it and its great knobs, telling your mind you have “the real thing” in front of you producing the sound, I don’t see the practical difference. If you are a “matter-of-fact man” kind of person, in terms of caring more on the results than in the means, you can save a real lot of money and trouble going through it, and still have great results, definitely, not at all less impressive than those achieved with a system 55 or similar beasts.

The idea that you can always sound different shown as a great thing, it is a bit silly to me. They say you will always sound different because of a “disadvantage” in fact, and not because of an “advantage”, so it makes no sense. The disadvantage presented as an advantage is that you cannot recall presets in any easy way, and never in a perfect exact way. There is no way to sensibly state that having the possibilities of saving presets is worse than not saving them.

A 55 can be great fun for sure, it must be great to have it in front of you, and all you want, but it is not necessary neither it is better than some virtual instruments you can access today, at a fraction of the price. In the virtual world you get all the advantages of the PC world as well, which is fantastic, and don’t forget about automation, which does not limit your performance at the two hands options only.

I agree you Nestor...

However, I hope Moog does sell some of these so they stay in business.

I used to build analogs, even had a Jupiter-6 (much prefer the Pro Wave). But Scope can do so much more.

-Tom

The Moog is a small part of the modular ecosystem now. Their survival isn't critical. Having heard my friend's modular system, I have to say that it sounds better than any synthesizer I have heard. He doesn't even own a keyboard for input. I guess that goes against his religion. He uses drones and sometimes a ribbon.

Nestor; You are right of course, the Xite modular can do much more than a hardware modular system for a lot cheaper and all the preset/automation you want, but I agree with braincell. It's the sound.
Last year I bought a Pittsburgh System 10 and use it alongside my Xite-1. Both sound great and although the Sys10 is minimal and I use it a lot less than the Xite, I don't see it as redundant. I see them as two separate paths with each being a separate pallet in my inspirational toolkit.
I use the Sys10 mostly as a lead synth and to my ears it naturally has a small amt of grit to the sound without being harsh. Why? I have no idea nor do I care.
Yes perhaps it is all in my mind but when I turn the dials it inspires me differently than when I work with the Xite modular even with a BCR setup to control it.
Now if I had to choose btwn the two it would be the Xite hands down even with an evenly priced eurorack system.
If I were standing in front of a Moog System 55 for sale and someone handed me $35,000 to spend however I choose, I'm not sure what I would do. My brain would probably melt.
Next year I plan to attend the Moogfest in Asheville, NC. It is only a couple of hours from where I live. Hopefully I will be able to get some hands-on time with this and some other great synths.

What I'm curious to know is, what if someone did an experiment and hooked up mock-up panels of the moog system 55 so they were just midi controllers connected to similar modules in the Scope modular. Then you put that and a real unit side by side and don't tell the test subject and see what he says about the two without any outside influence.

(and if he says he likes the Xite better you slip him a piece of cheese )

Regards
Dan

That would be a great test, for sure…

If I was handled 35.000 $, as you suggest, I would definitely spend them getting many new different items for my studio, including a new synth, a pair of high definition monitoring speakers, a pair of high definition headphones (really expensive ones), two or three more MIDI control devices, a couple of the best microphones in the market, etc… And I would still have to get a couple of very nice string instruments...

I would buy a modular with 16 oscillators and play them detuned in unison... j/k lol

-Tom

get a korg dss1 and you can do just that with any type oscillator shape and fat analog filters and a nice analog dual delay

I've never heard of the DSS1, but I see that one sold for around $400 on ebay recently. I have an old Emu ESI-32 gathering dust. I don't really use samplers. I'm happy with my M3 for ROMpler sounds.

-Tom

tlaskows wrote:I would buy a modular with 16 oscillators and play them detuned in unison... j/k lol

-Tom

Nestor wrote:That would be a great test, for sure…

If I was handled 35.000 $, as you suggest, I would definitely spend them getting many new different items for my studio, including a new synth, a pair of high definition monitoring speakers, a pair of high definition headphones (really expensive ones), two or three more MIDI control devices, a couple of the best microphones in the market, etc… And I would still have to get a couple of very nice string instruments...

yes, that is of course the other choice. It's what's behind door number 2. I would venture to say you have every one of those items already to a lesser degree. So sure just bump everything up a notch or two in quality. Makes sense and is practical.
But.............here you have been given the chance for something you would never ever spend your own money on.
Ah well, that is good will power you have. Most of the time I am a thorough consumer and only part with my money for worthy things. Every once in a while I become an impulse buyer and sometimes I end up with things that I never dreamed of owning. That is how I ended up here.


Cheers to all of you.
Dan