PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

We where very tired trying to find out how to get audio signals through to our 4 ADAT interfaces.

ADAT interfaces connected to our new RME ADI 648 MADI.

We started to put the HDSPe MADI card on Internal in order to use it as Master Wordclock.

When the HDSPe MADI card finally started to work ,we connected all ADAT interfaces and putted them in sync.

Thats the state of now, the sync is working through the RME ADI 648 to all ADAT.

Then we made the big mistake, after trying to to route a Wave signal from WM-Player,

that was on Channel 7 and 8 to Channel 1 and 2 on the HDSPe MADI card.

In order to be abel to route them from Channel number 1 and have some order when routing them out,

from the HDSPe MADI to RME ADI 648 first.

We was very tired and started to experiment with diminishing the Mixerwindow

instead of trying to find out in the Manuals.

I am sorry thats the way we have done in the past sometimes. ( experiments sometimes work )

The hdspmix then became froozen in that position. Just a thin part of the mixer is left .

File, Edit, View, Options, Fader Groups and the sign ? on top.

it's highly recommended to read (and understand) the RME manual of the mixer and routing matrix.
That mixer thingy is far from self explanatory...
To be honest the GUI implementation (regardless of it's flexibility) completely sucks.
I may be spoilt by Scope's virtual cable paradigm, where you really get what you see.
On the RME mixer you SEE one fader, but it might represent any of the channel's possible destinations... actually showing the state of the most recently used.
But it doesn't tell immediately which one that was. All 'used' ones have a tickmark...
I've read the manual and it made things a bit clearer, but in less than a day most stuff was forgotten again as it's so damn unintuitive (imo)

cheers, Tom

astroman wrote:it's highly recommended to read (and understand) the RME manual of the mixer and routing matrix.
That mixer thingy is far from self explanatory...
To be honest the GUI implementation (regardless of it's flexibility) completely sucks.
I may be spoilt by Scope's virtual cable paradigm, where you really get what you see.
On the RME mixer you SEE one fader, but it might represent any of the channel's possible destinations... actually showing the state of the most recently used.
But it doesn't tell immediately which one that was. All 'used' ones have a tickmark...
I've read the manual and it made things a bit clearer, but in less than a day most stuff was forgotten again as it's so damn unintuitive (imo)

cheers, Tom

Hi Tom

Routing Matrix ???

Do you mean the Midi Remote or what.

Trying to find very short Midi Cables here

no, I was writing about the TotalMix application and it's companion which they call 'Matrix'.
The latter also shows signal level at the respective virtual crosspoints and so kind of duplicates the mixer functionality (at least to a degree).
You can manipulate those values with the mouse ... or so... I found it extremely (!) annoying - did not what I'd expect from a patchbay, but that might as well be due to my own stupidity
At least I see some potential for messing things up there - and a steep curve with trial and error only.
I hate it to read software manuals if they refer to user interfaces. Such things should be clear at a glance.
Otherwise the engineer failed (imo).

cheers, Tom

astroman wrote:no, I was writing about the TotalMix application and it's companion which they call 'Matrix'.
The latter also shows signal level at the respective virtual crosspoints and so kind of duplicates the mixer functionality (at least to a degree).
You can manipulate those values with the mouse ... or so... I found it extremely (!) annoying - did not what I'd expect from a patchbay, but that might as well be due to my own stupidity
At least I see some potential for messing things up there - and a steep curve with trial and error only.
I hate it to read software manuals if they refer to user interfaces. Such things should be clear at a glance.
Otherwise the engineer failed (imo).

cheers, Tom

I agree ,but it seems to work allthough the germans seems to be a little bit narrow minded here.

We have that even more here in Sweden.

We use Scope 5,0 and we are going to do Mastering for live set up now with Stereo Mixdown in Scope.

We could not find any other converter from ADAT to MADI with 8 ADAT so we bought theire card also .

That was maybe a mistake , the card.

We where told it has two MADI out, but they cant be used in the same time. Coaxial and Optical.

Its probarbly a good card , but the sales people where actually lying to us about that.

We still havnt made the card working where it was supposed to be in our W764.

We installed it instead in our W7 32

We are now going to ask them what the SSL-128 have, two MADI in and out ,and how to fix that.

To go two ways with MADI.

Maybe its possible when I connect one more MADI ( f.ex. a Venue board )

I mean to use both coaxial and optical.

ex. out back to AI 648 Coaxial and to Venue on Optical out from HDSPe MADI

We dont have one more device to test that on.

They call me AD /DA expert but I am not I am a feedbackexpert

astroman wrote:it's highly recommended to read (and understand) the RME manual of the mixer and routing matrix.
That mixer thingy is far from self explanatory...
To be honest the GUI implementation (regardless of it's flexibility) completely sucks.
I may be spoilt by Scope's virtual cable paradigm, where you really get what you see.
On the RME mixer you SEE one fader, but it might represent any of the channel's possible destinations... actually showing the state of the most recently used.
But it doesn't tell immediately which one that was. All 'used' ones have a tickmark...
I've read the manual and it made things a bit clearer, but in less than a day most stuff was forgotten again as it's so damn unintuitive (imo)

cheers, Tom

Hi again Tom.

Its nice to talk to you even though you might not follow all our mistakes .

We made it work with some mistakes without reading manuals lol.

We now need your help. RME is too slow .http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic ... 768#p56768

Can we ask a question because RME will probarbly not respond today Saturday.

Its not about our new screenshot, thats also maybe too much to take for them.

Its about why we could not make our W7 64 working but the W7 32 works with RME HSPDe but everything else is fine.

yeah, that diagram is pretty demanding - at least with no information about what each computer is performing.
I have absolutely no experience with MADI and I don't have the PCIe version of the HDSP card.
Afaik the driver software is one package for both 32 and 64 bit systems and indeed I've planned to move my PCI32 HDSP to the Win 7 64bit machine.
It's a P67 chipset and is unusuable with Scope due to the bandwidth reverbs on the old cards require (opposed to XITE).
So I could check if the RME works... but that's a different part of the architecture and wouldn't help much.
If RME declares an old fart like the PCI HDSP 64bit compatible, you can rely on the fact that a more recent card will support it.
Regarding technological implementation I'd consider them top notch, even if I complain about their GUI mode of operation

BUT... if you allow an open word...
you're stretching it a bit far with internet self service support for free.
What you ask for is the job of a consultant (a complete system solution)
You're not stuck with a couple of items where someone more experienced can simply point you into the right direction.
The questions in the RME forum are (should have been) subject to your negotiations with your supplier and NOT for RME tech support.
Btw those guys should be granted some relax during weekend, too...
Of course it's your right and worth a try anyway

cheers, Tom

ps the non working card in 64bit... most likely the slot is hidden because it shares with another part of the system or a card

astroman wrote:yeah, that diagram is pretty demanding - at least with no information about what each computer is performing.
I have absolutely no experience with MADI and I don't have the PCIe version of the HDSP card.
Afaik the driver software is one package for both 32 and 64 bit systems and indeed I've planned to move my PCI32 HDSP to the Win 7 64bit machine.
It's a P67 chipset and is unusuable with Scope due to the bandwidth reverbs on the old cards require (opposed to XITE).
So I could check if the RME works... but that's a different part of the architecture and wouldn't help much.
If RME declares an old fart like the PCI HDSP 64bit compatible, you can rely on the fact that a more recent card will support it.
Regarding technological implementation I'd consider them top notch, even if I complain about their GUI mode of operation

BUT... if you allow an open word...
you're stretching it a bit far with internet self service support for free.
What you ask for is the job of a consultant (a complete system solution)
You're not stuck with a couple of items where someone more experienced can simply point you into the right direction.
The questions in the RME forum are (should have been) subject to your negotiations with your supplier and NOT for RME tech support.
Btw those guys should be granted some relax during weekend, too...
Of course it's your right and worth a try anyway

cheers, Tom

ps the non working card in 64bit... most likely the slot is hidden because it shares with another part of the system or a card

Ok Tom

You answered me and thats nice of you.

I think you dont understand fully what s going on here in Europe .

We got help now and then with questions to one American Professor in sountechnic for twenty years now ( mostly analog experiences )

I also have an american Bachelors degree in music and maybe you think I am egoistic about writing to RME for support.

Maybe you are right but what we do in the band is also different opinions in the band ,

and I have lost my ability to judge about whats right and wrong in a lot of things .

In this story its more like a war about not losing time.

I have called america and Germany and Oxford and Whashington ,

Avids Headquarters and even there they refered to sales-people in Sweden.

We are a few companies in this and sales-people just dont know, not even in Avids Headquarter.

I got the same answere from you people here about the 96 KHZ as on Headquarters SSL Oxford

and also Avid Headquarters in that case.

Thats great but I am sorry in Europe and in Sweden did not work for me.

They just dont have the knowledge.

Thank you for helping me though here.

We just dont have time to wait until everybody have much more knowledge here in Sweden.

As far as I can understand that is a problem also in america .

The sales people here is unfriendly.They just dont give support at all so I call Germany.

and they are just avoing to answere the questions in the telephone.

Then the forum is all we got.

What did you mean with this most likely the slot is hidden because it shares with another part of the system or a card

I have tried to instal it many times now and I came close now because it installed the first time now ,

but that was when disconnecting everything using just a singel display and no switcher ,

but then the mouse was freezing when I was restarting it on the switcher

so maybe it was not installed right.

I try now to repare first again then.

Most likely the slot is hidden ??? in what way, in reg edit files left from failed instal or what ?

Maybe you mean that if we do factory restore and instal the MADI card first it hopfully will work

I dont understand this shared thing in W7 ,but in XP we did a lot of reg,edit actions after wrongdoings.

Maybe you mean that its something with the network ???

In our Vista we always have user control off. Strange behavior otherwise

We are kind of new to W7 we used XP up til 1 year ago

Read the Manual and some Books. You are lost. And this is getting silly.If you have such a setup then please take a week to understand it.This is a Private forum and not your personal Helpdesk....
Or Pay Some real Studio People to help you.Its Probably some minor stuff a professional can solve for you in 1 hour.

Fluxpod wrote:Read the Manual and some Books. You are lost. And this is getting silly.If you have such a setup then please take a week to understand it.This is a Private forum and not your personal Helpdesk....
Or Pay Some real Studio People to help you.Its Probably some minor stuff a professional can solve for you in 1 hour.

Ok who are you ? I am not lost.

Did I ask for your stupid advice

I have to read XP manuals from so called worldleading companies.

Telefunkenland most of the so called real Studio People dont know what we are doing so dont be rude to me

I started this thread so you dont have to be in this thread Telefunkenland .

I have also got an offer from Sonic Core with nice price for one more card for our setup.

We are going to take that we decided today .

Uninstall the card. Go to the bios. Disable ALL things like onboard soundcard, network etc. Take out ALL the cards from your pc execpt the card you want to install. and then do that.

Still doesn't work?
Does it show up in the device manager? Does it have shared irqs?

the19thbear wrote:Uninstall the card. Go to the bios. Disable ALL things like onboard soundcard, network etc. Take out ALL the cards from your pc execpt the card you want to install. and then do that.

Still doesn't work?
Does it show up in the device manager? Does it have shared irqs?

Thank you.

That was great.

When I came that far as to the Device manager it showed up,

but that was two times of maybe 30 trials computer freezing before Windows opening ( different freezing points )

Then freezing after installation then, and without the switcher we manage to come into Windows after reboot ,

The Device manager showed no installed Device. It was both times freezing in windows ,

right after installation from the Device Manager.

We are maybe going to do that in bios then tonight.

We just disabeled the Raid system in bios in one of our computers ,

because we where going to use three different set up in that one ( not a studiocomputer though )

We have network between all 4 studio computers, is that what you ment with shared irqs.

I turned off that late yesterday, but wasnt that part of your advice about bios ,

If its the network ,do I really have to go to bios for that.

Cant we just to turn of the Work Network that we have enabeled here. ( Maybe all steps )

Or is it not possible to do in Services ( lokal ) or msconfig. services.

Diagnostic Services Host Properties is set on manual, is that a help here to put on automatic f.ex.

By the way ,what about the Raid system of two disks that we have .

Could that system be the problem.

We just dont have time to read articles about network today.

Today is recording day, but also going into bios if we have to. ( Later in the evning )

We was setting up worknetwork a few month ago ,and that was maybe a bad idea for studiocomputers.

Best Regards

Bjorn

about 'hidden card':
some motherboards have more slots than they can handle simultaneously.
As it's a rare case that all will be populated, the manufacturer may have set a maximum in a way that certain card positions deactivate their 'neighbours'.
This can be fully exclusive, meaning the 'other' card isn't even seen in bios - or virtual, meaning they share Interrupts.
In that case one device may have priority or they are dynamically treated by the operating system according to load.
For example sharing a graphcard with a PCI(e) audiocard is generally considered asking for trouble (according to experience), but I've seen it myself recently.
Worked flawless under low load conditions, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it if the system were pushed.

Windows (any flavour of) IS a stupid piece of crap, but as M$ were the first to fully realize that the average consumer (or even decision maker) IS pretty stupid, too... we all have to get along with it...
DO NOT expect ANY smart solution from that source. Rely on THEM (stuff from Redmont) as few as is unavoidable...
Believe the unbelievable and if something is generally considered 'unique' expect M$ to come up with an ambigous version.

I don't intend to bash them (who am I afterall...), but THAT's your position on the map - decide accordingly, then all will be fine.

You're not the only one lacking the time reading (all) the required documentation.
To be honest, I even doubt if a lifetime is enough for the bs M$ spreads in a so called 'knowledge base'.
The latter beeing more a confession of engineering failure... ok, I REALLY should stop that now...

Getting down to business... so what ARE your alternatives ?
if you're in the middle of a recording contract/session or whatever, it's too late anyway.
Reduce to whatever functionality you already have gained.
Stop messing with gear, protocols, software and do the tracks - even if you imagine 'strategical' improvement in the setup.
The last record I bought (for real cash) was made on an 8 track cassette recorder (Tascam 488) and I AM really picky with sound quality.

Imho you kind of seem to be a victim of marketing propaganda about what's possible today technologically.
May be true that A LOT of stuff goes, but that's just an empty shell.
Without content it's a bubble.
And content doesn't even count in fidelity or superior number of bits.
Unless you're about bragging and faking Hollywood score like tunes... or so

That point aside I'd assume you (want to) use a set of computers for easier management of the band performance.
Without details about each system's part in the performance you can expect few help here (or anywhere)
If it's a business secret to be kept disclosed... ok, fine.
But then there can never be a 'valid' answer as the topics you hung your questions to were purely technological.
And technology just provides the tools - it doesn't function isolated from content, method and final goal.

oops, I don't want to make this too long...
the most reasonable approach would be to define your 'band structure' completely analog with pen and pencil.
But not like the 'other' diagram about your digital communications - just functional is much better.
Then choose the method of implementation - there may be several (!)...
and either do it yourself (as you've had the time to collect the required knowledge) or pay a consultant to do it for you.
Include a failure fee in the contract...

cheers, Tom

ps I understand your points about suppliers and stores - it's the consequence of the price downward spiral.
When I worked at the sales front, we made an average profit of 35% with consumers, 22% with key accounts.
Yeah folks... that's been a long, long time...
But we could AFFORD the time to fully support our customers, we even did weekends - and were almost devoted to our customers projects... making their success our own goal.

Disable thr network card in bios an disable All other things that you don't need, in bios as well.
Irq has nothing to do with network but is an adress of the insides in your computer. Each device has an adress. (network card, soundcard etc). Sometimes things end up sharing adresses and that sometimes causes problems.
In device manager you can setup how you view the different devices. You have to switch to whatever view gives you that. Check for shared irq's and if you find any sharing with the audiocard disable them if you can. You can also take out the cards and switch slots..

Good luck.

astroman wrote:about 'hidden card':
some motherboards have more slots than they can handle simultaneously.
As it's a rare case that all will be populated, the manufacturer may have set a maximum in a way that certain card positions deactivate their 'neighbours'.
This can be fully exclusive, meaning the 'other' card isn't even seen in bios - or virtual, meaning they share Interrupts.
In that case one device may have priority or they are dynamically treated by the operating system according to load.
For example sharing a graphcard with a PCI(e) audiocard is generally considered asking for trouble (according to experience), but I've seen it myself recently.
Worked flawless under low load conditions, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it if the system were pushed.

Windows (any flavour of) IS a stupid piece of crap, but as M$ were the first to fully realize that the average consumer (or even decision maker) IS pretty stupid, too... we all have to get along with it...
DO NOT expect ANY smart solution from that source. Rely on THEM (stuff from Redmont) as few as is unavoidable...
Believe the unbelievable and if something is generally considered 'unique' expect M$ to come up with an ambigous version.

I don't intend to bash them (who am I afterall...), but THAT's your position on the map - decide accordingly, then all will be fine.

You're not the only one lacking the time reading (all) the required documentation.
To be honest, I even doubt if a lifetime is enough for the bs M$ spreads in a so called 'knowledge base'.
The latter beeing more a confession of engineering failure... ok, I REALLY should stop that now...

Getting down to business... so what ARE your alternatives ?
if you're in the middle of a recording contract/session or whatever, it's too late anyway.
Reduce to whatever functionality you already have gained.
Stop messing with gear, protocols, software and do the tracks - even if you imagine 'strategical' improvement in the setup.
The last record I bought (for real cash) was made on an 8 track cassette recorder (Tascam 488) and I AM really picky with sound quality.

Imho you kind of seem to be a victim of marketing propaganda about what's possible today technologically.
May be true that A LOT of stuff goes, but that's just an empty shell.
Without content it's a bubble.
And content doesn't even count in fidelity or superior number of bits.
Unless you're about bragging and faking Hollywood score like tunes... or so

That point aside I'd assume you (want to) use a set of computers for easier management of the band performance.
Without details about each system's part in the performance you can expect few help here (or anywhere)
If it's a business secret to be kept disclosed... ok, fine.
But then there can never be a 'valid' answer as the topics you hung your questions to were purely technological.
And technology just provides the tools - it doesn't function isolated from content, method and final goal.

oops, I don't want to make this too long...
the most reasonable approach would be to define your 'band structure' completely analog with pen and pencil.
But not like the 'other' diagram about your digital communications - just functional is much better.
Then choose the method of implementation - there may be several (!)...
and either do it yourself (as you've had the time to collect the required knowledge) or pay a consultant to do it for you.
Include a failure fee in the contract...

cheers, Tom

ps I understand your points about suppliers and stores - it's the consequence of the price downward spiral.
When I worked at the sales front, we made an average profit of 35% with consumers, 22% with key accounts.
Yeah folks... that's been a long, long time...
But we could AFFORD the time to fully support our customers, we even did weekends - and were almost devoted to our customers projects... making their success our own goal.

Thanks Tom

We are now in less than one hour going in to bios to see what happens when we disabel whatever network conflict or card slot whatever.

About my RME . It is just to find out quickly what we need before performance soon.

In terms of Cabels to be Digital. Not analog anymore.

you probably know it's the worst moment to start with what you're about to...
anyway, just in case...
have a copy of that 32bit Win7 installation (you mentioned as functioning) at hand - or make one on any sh*tty spare drive...

good luck, Tom

astroman wrote:you probably know it's the worst moment to start with what you're about to...
anyway, just in case...
have a copy of that 32bit Win7 installation (you mentioned as functioning) at hand - or make one on any sh*tty spare drive...

good luck, Tom

Copy of 32 bit We already had it to work in 32 bit

So you dont think we know our ways in bios lol

We have been working for ours trying to find out if thouse drivers really are for our 64 bit also lol, as they say RME.

Now when we also disabeled everything in bios it seems more like that,

they are pretending that theire drivers also work for 64 bit.

Its very much the nr 32 on both the applications properties inside driver 324.

I am now going to try the older versions they have on theire site.

Best Regards

niceboy wrote:... So you dont think we know our ways in bios lol

I don't even mind. I mentioned the backup/32bit install just for completeness because I've seen countless people forget about the most obvious and trivial stuff in such situations... looking back on > 20 years of support... myself included

...We have been working for ours trying to find out if thouse drivers really are for our 64 bit also lol, as they say RME...

took me less than 10 minutes to download, install and verify operation of the software in Win7/64 for my HDSP 9652.

but on the download page I noticed a rather new remark about your version, which obviously needs a firmware update.
I know you most likely have been pointed to that already, so again it's mentioned 'just in case...'

cheers, Tom

astroman wrote:

niceboy wrote:... So you dont think we know our ways in bios lol

I don't even mind. I mentioned the backup/32bit install just for completeness because I've seen countless people forget about the most obvious and trivial stuff in such situations... looking back on > 20 years of support... myself included

...We have been working for ours trying to find out if thouse drivers really are for our 64 bit also lol, as they say RME...

took me less than 10 minutes to download, install and verify operation of the software in Win7/64 for my HDSP 9652.

but on the download page I noticed a rather new remark about your version, which obviously needs a firmware update.
I know you most likely have been pointed to that already, so again it's mentioned 'just in case...'

cheers, Tom

Ok its two driver packs .

No one hs told me wich driver to instal first .Maybe the firmware ( fut_wdm_dspe schould be first ) because we took the other one first and got series of freezes

We just took the other one first because it was highest up on theire site,

but I dont know ,our 64 is so unstable now ,

so we might do one factory restore first here before or after.

testing the fut_wdm_dspe schould be first .

Maybe that was whats wrong here.

Must have done so in W7 32 then .

It works

astroman wrote:

niceboy wrote:... So you dont think we know our ways in bios lol

I don't even mind. I mentioned the backup/32bit install just for completeness because I've seen countless people forget about the most obvious and trivial stuff in such situations... looking back on > 20 years of support... myself included

...We have been working for ours trying to find out if thouse drivers really are for our 64 bit also lol, as they say RME...

took me less than 10 minutes to download, install and verify operation of the software in Win7/64 for my HDSP 9652.

but on the download page I noticed a rather new remark about your version, which obviously needs a firmware update.
I know you most likely have been pointed to that already, so again it's mentioned 'just in case...'

cheers, Tom

In case what ???

This seems to be complicated to do after RME regulations lol.

Jeff there in Florida directly found out that it must be C1E enabled in Bios.

That was the problem.

He also told me, that he understood what we do.They have done the same a lot in America.

I want to know though if there is possible to have three 14/15 DSP .

That will be all 48 channels out from SCOPE 5.

We now have 32 Channels out.

Best Regards