scope limiter question

[judiefre1]

hey everyone i just got a new pair of monitors but these have no built in limiter, so i was thinking of throwing in a scope limiter in the signal chain to help protect them. Which limiter recommend and setting? thanks
running scope 5.1

[garyb]

i wouldn't do that myself. that's just a good way to fool yourself. if you must do it, a limiter with a very high threshold and very quick attack and release is the way. limiters don't belong on reference monitors. neither do super high listening levels...

[judiefre1]

limiters don't belong on reference monitors. neither do super high listening levels...

yes but u know those occasional pops and once in a while might stupidly have volume turned all way up. Dunno just was thinking to stay on the safe side. so theres no specific limiter that would b good for this in scope? looking for something that wont effect my sound or mixing , just sort of a brick wall type deal i guess, or is this really just a bad idea?
thanks

[dante]

DAS Brickmaster is the fastest I know of (they had to slow it down).

http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com/products.html

[garyb]

limiters don't belong on reference monitors. neither do super high listening levels...

yes but u know those occasional pops and once in a while might stupidly have volume turned all way up. Dunno just was thinking to stay on the safe side. so theres no specific limiter that would b good for this in scope? looking for something that wont effect my sound or mixing , just sort of a brick wall type deal i guess, or is this really just a bad idea?
thanks

yes, it's a bad idea.
but only because they're reference monitors and if the system is lying about dynamics, it doesn't help.

don't make mistakes with the volume, or if you do, be a man and fix the damage without complaining. music is dangerous.

for that type of use, you're better off with hardware anyway. having the limiter outside the system, as close to the amp in the signal chain as possible would give the best protection against possible accidents. the biggest problem is that limiters don't suddenly start working at their threshold. that wouldn't be possible in the real world and it wouldn't sound good either.

[Andy_F]

Personally (and if you're using Scope mixing/routing) i'd just put another mini mixer between your main scope mixer output and the actual output to your speakers. There is a control room module for that very purpose.

Set the mixer -6dB (maybe more or less?) so you can never send a signal which could damage the speakers. Also dont forget the Scope mixers are fixed point so they will clip.. A really fast limiter is very similar to digital clipping after all.

[judiefre1]

thanks for replys everyone, i deffintly dont want ne effect on my dynamics so imma reconsider and just try to b extra careful for now, and mayb get that mixer down the road,
cheers

[garyb]

just something clean(audio-wise) with a volume knob would be sufficient.

[t_tangent]

You could get something like this

http://www.goldpt.com/sa1x.html

Very transparent and you can then have your monitors set to a reasonable volume without affecting dynamics or stereo imaging. Not cheap mind for what it is, but you might be able to find one second hand. Check what others have to say here

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end ... ction.html

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... -i-do.html

There are alternatives as you can see and you can of course make your own too if you are reasonably comfortable doing that, but the SA1X works very well for me. They should help protect your monitors if you listen at reasonable levels when monitoring. They wont stop transients although not many do that unless you want to spend megabucks on something like a Pendulum PL-2.

Hope that helps.

[judiefre1]

those r a little pricey, whts thoughts on mackie big knob ? i can get one for pretty cheap

[astroman]

well, that was my first thought, too - on the other hand... if those switches are supposed to deliver glitchfree operation, there's a massive amount of gold needed for the contacts. Check out the price of a quality 5-way switch for a Strat, which will almost certainly have lower quality contacts.
It depends on usage: if you change volume frequently, the investment will pay off.
If you only need it occasionally (and if your monitors aren't the absolute top of the crop) something more simple will do as well (imho).
The main advanatge versus a tandem-pot is full reproduceability and precise stepping - electrically it's almost identical.
No idea about the mackie, sorry.

cheers, Tom

[garyb]

the Mackie is fine for most people.

the Goldpoint looks pretty sweet...

[judiefre1]

a couple other ones just found are presonus central station and SM Pro Audio M-Patch 2 . Neone with experience that can vouge for ne of these, most important is a clean uncolored sound
looks like this is turning into a tech talk thread

[garyb]

i think both are ok.

it's really a matter of how deep you want to get with this. if you haven't done anything to improve your room, then i'd get the cheapest one(SM Pro Patch). if you actually have top-notch speakers and have begun to fix the acoustics in the room, then a high-end solution will be the best choice, as you'll be able to really hear the difference.

[judiefre1]

yes ive already invested much $ on real traps acoustics and new bm6a's, so i guess ill stay clear of the cheaper ones not to compromise sound, starting to consider that gold point, but has no headphone amp which i really need

[t_tangent]

yes ive already invested much $ on real traps acoustics and new bm6a's, so i guess ill stay clear of the cheaper ones not to compromise sound, starting to consider that gold point, but has no headphone amp which i really need

I guess an XITE-1 is probably a bit pricey just for the headphone socket

Yes that was the only downside to the SA1X, but l did get an XITE-1 around the same time when the deals were running, so I use the socket on that. Presonus Central Station is supposed to be ok but I never tried it. I did try the SM Pro Audio M-Patch 2 and didnt like the sound quality. Was not very transparent, anything I ran through them sounded a bit dull and muddy, and the stereo imaging did sound slightly off. A shame as that also had the headphone out. So I ended up getting the SA1X as to me it was very transparent. I would love to have got something like an Avocet or Crane Song but they are like over 2 grand, so I figured the SA1X was a good balance between cheap shit and over the top megabucks

[garyb]

yes ive already invested much $ on real traps acoustics and new bm6a's, so i guess ill stay clear of the cheaper ones not to compromise sound, starting to consider that gold point, but has no headphone amp which i really need

the control room out of the mixer, typically goes to the control rool monitors. i would think that you would want a seperate output for the foldback or headphone monitors.

how about a small used broadcast mixer?(amek, ramsa, etc) that would give you a volume knob and a headphone out, and would be pretty sonically neutral.

i would agree with t_tangent in general...

[t_tangent]

LOL gary, I was just going to say I agree with you

But thanks, its nice to be on the right track from time to time, hehe

Cheers matey

yes ive already invested much $ on real traps acoustics and new bm6a's, so i guess ill stay clear of the cheaper ones not to compromise sound, starting to consider that gold point, but has no headphone amp which i really need

the control room out of the mixer, typically goes to the control rool monitors. i would think that you would want a seperate output for the foldback or headphone monitors.

how about a small used broadcast mixer?(amek, ramsa, etc) that would give you a volume knob and a headphone out, and would be pretty sonically neutral.

i would agree with t_tangent in general...

[garyb]

[judiefre1]

I guess an XITE-1 is probably a bit pricey just for the headphone socket

tempting lol,, started the day thinking $100 then $500 now 4000 eu, u guys are gonna make me homeless
it b a dream but not today, neways about what u said gary

the control room out of the mixer, typically goes to the control rool monitors. i would think that you would want a seperate output for the foldback or headphone monitors.

theres something i didnt think about, i ve got right now a scope pro and home 3dsp, so how about the gold point use with the scope pro outputs to monitors, and route the home card outputs to a regular headphone amp? thatd work right?