PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Don't want to ask a stupid question but I'm (potentially) going to anyway;

I'm interested in getting a couple of external midi controllers (Behringer BCR series with motoriosed faders/rotary contollers) so that I can physicalize my Scope synth tweaking. I had an old Kenton Control Freak which was cool however the problem I constantly faced was that the controller value was never initally synchronised with the parameter i.e. if I moved a fader or pot the synth parameter would jump to the value of the pot/fader - the problem manifested itself mostly when I was swapping programs on the hardware controller and became a pain in the arse...

As the Behringer controllers uses continuous rotary pots and motorised faders is it possible to get these to automatically stay in sync i.e. if I were to change synth preset or move a fader in Scope the relevant hardware would update?

Appreciate any advice.

Si

I used Motorized faders when they first came out in 1986, and not much has changed.
I could take my Korg M1, DX7IIFD or Mirage and watch the faders tracking in real time on the Yamaha DMP7. I also used a Preset as a " Scene Change. " This meant that as soon as the Hardware sequencer would start, a Program Change message was sent to the DMP7, and this would cause immediate jumps on the motorized faders, or you could set a crossfade amount for smoother moves.
I use the Mute All Controller feature on the KS88 Pro so when I change a preset in realtime, the software will not jump. But this doesn't reflect the current position of the software on the hardware controller. Having the faders automatically reset is much more elegant.
I also learned that rackmounting motorized faders in a vertical fashion would cause early failure. Having them set at an angle or flat is how they were meant to be used. Gravity will burn out the servco motors much quicker.
I think the Behringers are great for Scope. You can use Sharcs BCModular and SpaceF's mixers and devices which were designed around those mixers.

Yes the BCR will update its leds / values when a preset is changed in scope.
It does this thanks to "parameter feedback" (midi goes from bcr to synth and then it goes back from scope to the bcr).
The BCR is what i would advise for present and future spacef mixers, and also because it has lots of potis so can be used for synths etc.
The BCF (with motorized faders) is probably nice too, but less controls at once

Man Or Myth.........................Mehdi T.
Ankyu.........

No problem. This is very off topic but i find it useful to say that even smaller controllers are ok as long as you can have several layers in the template profile. (8 knobs/faders with several "pages" allowing to multiply the total number of midi CC per template). This is the minimum.
Having 24 knobs+8 buttons at once is perfect for the next stem mixer, you can easily control the new 216 "direct CC access" controls, and use the same CC for channels if you want to. Or 8 knobs/faders with 3 layers is fine too. It is for mute and solo that it is less fun because unless you have a control surface with 24 or 48 buttons.... you'll have to switch between layers or play with the mouse... unless you use the (^\#`|{^\[|{[|) of course...
I say this for Jimmy especially, so it's not only Wyoming sheeps that are nervous
Couple of month though....

In fact the only problem of the BCR is that i'd like it half its size so it would really fit well on my desk, and also it lacks an expression pedal input, which is found only on the BCF and not the BCR (it only has 2 on/off pedal inputs for sustain, switches, program changes...).

Great to have scope legends on hand when I have a question...

Thanks for the posts - my credit card will be out in the morning!

Si

Yes, Wyoming.
Where the women are few and the Sheep are nervous.
Not a BCR or BCF for hundreds of miles in any direction.
Hell the only music you here is the State Song..............
" There'll Never Be Another Ewe."......

in fact the BCR have 24 buttons on the first page... if you count the push-rotary controllers.
You have 4 layers of those, so it is 4*8=32 push controls + 16 buttons + 4 more buttons + function buttons that can be assigned to CC (but then you loose access to that particular control, like save, edit...)...
So a BCR gives you in total :
- 32+24 rotary = 56 rotary per template
- 32 push + 20 regular buttons = 52 buttons per template
- 2 inputs for pedal switches
- + 6 more buttons if you really want to push it....

Hard to beat, i think only the CME Bitstream offers as many possibilities for CCs but without the parameter feedback thing..

Shiny new BCR in hand I've plugged it all in (both midi in & out) and all seems fine except I cannot get parameter feedback working? If I move a pot all is rotary controller all works, if I move a software pot the LED rings update however if I load a preset nothing updates on the BCR and I'm back with the same out of sync problem.

I've hooked up midi monitor on the MIDI out of an instance of UKNOW 007 and when I load a preset no CC data appears to be sent so I'm not sure what I am doing wrong.

Appreciate any advice.

Si

for feedback to work, the device MUST have both a midi input and an output....

- you must make sure you have selected a BCR midi Mode that allows parameter feedback : there is one mode for midi, and another for usb.
- with scope devices, normally, as long as a CC is assigned to a parameter it is sent out when the value changes, through the device's midi out. It is a behavior by default for most devices, it is possible that some have different behavior.
- I prefer to use different midi seq source and dest: for example, source 2 and dest 3 (the number is the number of driver you drag in the project). Using different midi drivers in and out of BCR allows parameter feedback and avoids some problem with midi feedback loops.

Thanks for all the help guys.

It seems that my issue was related to the fact that not all synths support parameter feedback in Scope.

I've tested it with Profit 5 and Minimax and all works great. Strangely Modular (both versions) and UKNOW 007 don't support this functionality.

I'm off to do some research on Sharc's great looking BCM modules as that should (hopefully) allow me to get this working with Modular.

Si