PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Hi guys

I've decided to replace my PC case and seemingly have run into blank wall ! It seems that cases are made smaller these days as PCI cards and slots slowly fade away.

Retail staff I talk to have no idea if cases they supply are able to accept full length cards (most on line retailers are just office based) and most unable to open them and measure the space between the card slots and drive bays which are now all at the bottom of the front end of cases. Manufactures website and reviewers seem scant on internal measurements and most seem unable to reply to emails.

I've bought and returned a few cases after being wrongly advised. (I was told by Coolermasters there sileo 500 case was just what I needed, (all I had to do was drill out the rivets that held the slide in HDD bay from the bottom front of their case, which rather defeats the object of buying it to start) ! I have no room for a full tower case.

The only ones I can find that will have the space are the new K series from Lancool, they are aimed at gamers initially but do have alternatives with out those silly Perspex windows and LED lightshows in each of their product lines. The only worry I have there is that the cards would be mounted directly above the power supply and might get overheated as a result.

Has any else had this problem? if so , I'd be interested to know what cases have you found that have the room for the cards, are quiet and without 6 noisy fans with silly built lasers shows and don't cost an arm and a leg to buy !

Cheers

I have one of those cases and it's exceptionally well constructed
sure looks nothing special, but it's the details (unfortunately not visible in the pic)
the metal is very low resonance
both sides are removeable by a handle automatically snap in it's place on the top
no screws, but one on the backside
only drawbackback might be the low number of drive bays

cheers, Tom

Here an Antec P180 and it tends to be more of a price argument than a real alternative, even if a lot has been made to avoid noises and vibrations (hdd silicon parts to mount hdds, switchable speed for fans...)

Chieftec is good stuff, the Antec P180 (and the current models: P183/P193) offer great features & performance for the cost. I use Lian Li cases myself (again not very inexpensive but) they have similarly excellent build quality and if you find a supplier who can source the parts there's a wide variety of modular parts available. Aside from the capacity and build quality, I also enjoy the fact that the cases are entirely aluminum (for passive cooling directly from the case as well.)

I modded my Lian Li case to add an extra 120mm blowhole on the top (and a larger 120mm side intake next to the PCI slot area) and use Gelid silent 120mm PWM fans (the same 4-pin PWM style that cpu coolers use now) on all intakes & exhausts. They're mounted using silicone pressure mount 'screws' (an excellent way to damp any remaining vibrations.) Since everything sits under the desk and is somewhat obscured with sound foam with a bit of room left for directing airflow through that area it's a nice quiet solution for me, though I still need to upgrade to a better internal drive cage (I've got 5 drives in this one and want something with better vibration isolation per drive slot.) I also have added intake screens to any intake that didn't already have filtering (the main front intake behind the front bezel has a nice tall HEPA filter that came stock.) Some of Lian Li's cases also offer separated areas for power supply & drives, to keep their thermal & acoustic noise separate from the 'main' Logic board areas.

Valis wrote:Gelid silent 120mm PWM fans

Thanks for that...

Thanks for all your pointers, the field is narrowing.

I had actually decided on the Lian-Li Lancool PC-K56 which has some really good build features, though I think they seem to have lost the plot !!! The case is only about 50 plus GBP but I can only get it from America, Australia or the Philipines and it would cost 240 to ship it - though, get this - I can buy spare parts and new top covers for it from caseking.de but they can't supply the case as it's not available in Europe !!!

The next model in the range is available though, the problem with that is the open top grill for the option of putting another 2 fans in it, I dont think that would be very safe, the top of my old case tends to turn into a shelf for dvds and all sorts during the course of an evening, never mind, back to ebay for me, i'm on a mission now LOL

Very happy Antec P182 user here. At the time i bought it they were about £60 on ebuyer.

Very well designed and thought out, excellent build quality (very heavy and solid construction!) silent and cool.
Full length pci cards fit easily and there is loads of room for other things as well.

I dont! I found one just casually browsing on ebay the other day in perfect condition retro fitted with the excellent Noctua fans and it was on a buy now for 39 GPP and buy the time I signed in it had gone !!! Was well p****d off, wasn't far away either I could have one to collect it

I'm not sure I'd go for one of the budget Lian Li's, I guess I should have asked budget

Personally I have a PC-G70S which is almost identical to this case on caseking.de in layout, except my front bezel is closed with slots on the side (instead of an open grill) and my drive area is a cage mount (thumb screwed into place) that's interchangeable instead of bolted into the case (as that one seems to be.) But you'll note that the price is already above your budget and I added several optional parts to make the case to my liking (including a different 6-drive bay underneath the 5.25" bays) as well as a liberal soundmat treatment, which I seem to recall is already included in the Antec P-80 as well?

Suffice it to say that I do think the Antec case everyone is recommending is a great buy if you can find it at that price mentioned above.

Oh it's not the budget, I just have to like the look of something if i have to live with it ! (I wouldn't turn down a bargain on ebay though as i have two machines to re-case)

I don't find cases with doors very practical for myself (my old faithful used to have one) Like wise, aluminium tends dents to easy though it helps with cooling. A very good friend of mine has the new Scythe fenriswolf and its just SO SO quiet, but it's everything i don't like in material or doors and the side panels are a bit bendy)

The reason I like the Lancool is it's such an easy builder and I do swap out drives quite often for different procects and backups.

At the moment it looks as if the Zalman MS1000-HS1 front runner, it's strong, sturdy, visualy attractive and at a good price (actually the price is dropping as shops try to clear them out before the release of thier new Z7 series in a few weeks which i think are a bit ugly, I wouldn't buy one but there ya go)

Actually there are a number of cases on the market that have appeal across the price range though as I said in my first post, no one in the stores or distributors seem to know if full PCI cards fit - thats the problem (apart from me LOL)

Maybe it's time to swap the cards and go excite eh?

The Gygabyte Triton is a perfect case for a scope pci, as it quite modular and you can remove the lower hard disk case. I use an external cd/dvd rom burner/p)layer, and have 4 hard drives inside, in the 5' bays. I could put a 5th HD if i didn't need fan controllers.
It is 44 cm high, 25 width. I could even add 1 or 2 2.5 HD in the 3.5 bays.
It should still be easy to find.
I've been able to use the Scope PCI with an asus or a gygabite, both with very different designs , as well as a quite long graphic card.
It fits well in a samson rack, where i've plugged an a16 ultra, a noah (that i also use asa "table" for a half rack preamp and external cd/dvd) and there is still room for an xite

The nice thing with the triton, is the two 120 mm fans which are very silent despite not being sold as silent fans.. they outperform big names by many dB, and the frequency range of the fan noise is easily dampered by specialized foam, contrary to some big names that get high noise/cfm ratios in test, but fail miserably in real life....
All is evolving very fast in this particular area nowadays, lots of competition and new small companies... the king of the day quickly becomes a looser the day after.
Also, the triton has openings for watercooling, but well, that's really for hard core gamers... but it is nice to know it cann evolve.

It is cheap (around 60euros) and if you use something like rubber pads to put on the sides of the hard drives, it will be exceptionally perfect in terms of fit for the Hard drives.
Here is a link to the rubber pads i use. http://www.pc-look.com/boutik/Prod_Nois ... 53_fr.html (i know it is not your question but, it might help in making budgets... another off topic useful tip for those who fight micro vibrations: http://www.pc-look.com/boutik/Prod_Sile ... 40_fr.html .... very efficient).

In fact, the gygabyte triton is great for scope and if you want to tune your case for cooling and silence, and even with a lot of geeky accessories, it should remain cheaper and more efficient than so called silent cases (which often require tuning anyway). Zalman is a bit overratted in my experience, I've had several of there cpu cooler, and still use a GPU cooler from them. It is not bad, but not as good as you would excpect for the price. Lian Li is also quite expensive and my brother have asked me to tune his lian li for silence (it's just the cpu cooler that needs changes (scythe is the best brand nowadays), and some foam on the case sides to damper vibrations caused by air flows and that will be fine...). Cooltek makes the perfect foam kits for this.

I had several antecs too, but can't stand to have a door on the front panel. I need access to the buttons and fan controllers potis.
I like the big reset button on the Triton as well as front end firewire !! (i use firewire hds and soudcard for mobile works, that's why FW is important to me).....

In fact, any case of the right size (approx 50/55 cm depth) will be fine to fit a scope as long as you can remove the lower HD case, the rest is a matter of taste, time, budget, and will to go nerd or not on silent pcs ... but if you mix with the computer close to you, making it silent will bring immediate results on your mix balance and clarity (because you don't mix with a noise of frequency x next to you) and will also releive fatigue and stress (well, depends on your sensivity to this), but those who tried know...

Just saw you've chose a lian li, it is not a bad choice at all!

well, just my experience, just in case...

That's interesting, I was looking at some very nice (well to my eyes anyway) Gigabyte cases recently. I also use some rubber and foam in my drive caddys and it works vey well for vibration and noise.

Like yourself I find doors on the front of pc's can be a nuisance, as also can be sound constant noise of fans, I use the Sythe Ninja for cpu and have actually used the machine (core 2 quad) without the fan, though if i use a lot of Native Instruments (Kontakt/Massive etc) within cubase it can get a bit warm if I do. I have Antec accoustic pack lining my machine but i think they are a bit thin to absorb all the wishing of fans. How many fans are you using to cool your gigabyte case with?

One of the attractions on the Zalman case for me is that the air vents are discreetly meshed and do not look like those round things that you shake the earth through (if you dig the garden that is that lots of case makers seem so fond doing these days, I'm not sure if they are meant to help heat disapate or just to encourage people to buy lots of silly lit up fans behind them - I don't think I want to convert my studio into an audio visual environmemt (not with led case fans any way lol) theres enough led's on my desk, but at least the serve a really usefull purpose.

>>> How many fans are you using to cool your gigabyte case with?

a lot

1 - scythe katana 3 for cpu
2 - 92mm Enermax Everest on the left side at GPU level (thermoregulated with the probe on GPU; but i use some GPU intensive apps that make gpu boil and if not cooled, pc crashes... crappy twintech 9600GT graphic card)
3 - 80 mm Enermax Everest on the left side at CPU level: thermoregulated by PSU temperature, but it always go at minimum position: it serves mainly to cool the fins of the katana and air flows bounces on the katana top and goes toward hard drives as well as psu. The katana never went above 400 rpm in intensive pc use
4 - an old noctua 80mm is put behind the lowest hard drive in a 45° angle and at minimal speed position where it is "ok silent": that way, air is sent between 3 hard drives. I could change it for another enermax everest, but well, not necessary.... also, as fresh air is produced on the side of the fan that inpire air toward component, it is cooling the ram at the same time...
5 - 80 mm Enermax Everest on the right side: i did a whole for it, it sends air directly on the scope dsps and also sends air to the back of GPU: GPU is cooled by two sides now, and it is much more efficient. I did this so i could close the front opening, which is the only "whole" from which noise comes out of the case now.
6 - then the back 120 mm which i can put at max speed, but won't hear it because i've built a kind of "box in the box" between the samsom rack and the pc.
7 - I changed the GPU fan for a zalman VF900 which is the only fan i can hear when i am near the case: that's where the Cooltek foam prooved useful in changing completely the characteristic of the noise, from something mid frequency and agressive to some very soft, much quieter noise even at higher speeds.
8 - one extra fan is in the Cooler Master PSU, but i barely ever heard this one.

so that's 8 fans in total if i count the psu. The only one i can hear is the Zalmann on the GPU. the noctua adds some background low noise , but hearable only if i put my head inside the case
To make it really silent i should change for a fanless graphic card, but those are still expensive in the range of GPU i am looking for.
Also, the Foam changed the "pulsations" of the zalman: before, the noise was also "irregular" like if the fan was not going always at the same spped, now it is regular and gentle.... i would even add that now, the noise has some relaxing zen characteristic in it.... Thepulsations probably came from air flows boucing on the side of the case and going back to the Zalman, changing the air flow from time to time...
All the enermax have temperature sensors and are "pwm": i coupled those with an akasa fan controller junior so i can modulate the power that goes to the fans and defeat the temperature probes if needed. The enermax are cheap and efficient.... more than fans of 3 times the price.

If you don't use GPU intensive apps, or if you are not as wacko as I am about cooling and silence etc,
You could get rid of :
- fan #3
- fan #4
so that's 3 less fans (if you have fanless graphic cards).

If i don't want to use the front fan, it is not beause of the fan, but because that's the only "whole" where noise comes from now, so i needed to close that front opening and replace it with an opening at the right, which is opposite to where i am when i am on the pc. I have seen cases with an opening at the right like i did... can't remember which brand it was....
By the way, on the Triton case, you cannot put any 120 mm fan at the front: because the design needs a 120mm without frame: however, the fans of the gygabyte are very silent compared to other "silent fans" like a 120 mm noctua that i got rid of due to its high noise levels on low frequencies....

Also, the smaller fan, the better cooling because air has more power and goes further inside the case... 120mm fans are good for extractions, but i don't like them for blowing air on component. the cfm is weak and not well concentrated compared to a 80mm of 92mm at lower speeds.... the difference is between 5 and 10° celcius at low noise levels (ie, low speed)...
another tip about fan controllers: the akasa junior does not have an alarm and can cope with very low speeds.... i cannot plug the enermax on my other akasa "non-junior" controller, because that one cannot cope with speeds lower than 600 rpm, and the alarm will be triggered, while no power issent to the fans....

next step is to build a silent front door that will make the PC confined inside the samson rack... but that would be useful only if i intend to record something in the same room with high sensitivity microphones... for the moment, it is not needed, i still prefer to access the front panels...

I hope it helps...

nb; the new trend on "mesh" design of case is really for people who want to use leds and UV reactive stuff and lots of "bling bling" inside the case, that they can show off, while being able to put fans wherever they want ... it is not a design for silent pcs at all... and i don't think it helps cooling at all.... those huge fans are completely useless as they will be very noisy....

About the cooltek foam kits, it is 1,2cm foam glued on a 2mm "bitumap" (tar paper? something heavy that absorb vibrations).. 14mm thickness !
and it comes with an extra tar paper (2mm) that you can cut and put wherever you detect vibrations (i've used them around fans, a bit everywhere on the upper 5.25' bays to add absorbition of micro vibrations....). I think it is one of the thickest foam kit.
link (in german) http://www.cooltek.de/Low-Noise+PC/Scha ... alkit.html
I've used 2 kits, but that's because i've also foamed some parts inside the samson rack and made kind of noise blockers here and there outside the case so noise doesn't bounce to the external world ..... box in the box in the box...

i had a look at the zlaman case MS1000-HS.
http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/Pro ... sp?Idx=368

Are you sure you can remove the lower HD cases ? the fact that is it one piece of metal for the upper and lower cases make me think it will not be good for a scope-PCI.... even if you can remove the lower parts, you may have problems just trying to plug the scope pci if you have to bend it to make it fit in the case..... you see what i mean ?

apparently the Gigabyte triton is replaced by the Poseidon.
The front opening is half closed: looks a lot like what i did on my triton.
But I don't see clearly how is made the side window: you could put fans there using velcro tape (that what i use instead of screw) and may be it acts as a dust filter at the same time... deserves some research if you are interested.
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Cha ... uctID=2149
... i could even have "spacef" written in blue light beam ... very good

you could change the name projector to a LED laser and project your name over the audience, you might just find a pci smoke machine on a gamers site and install that, you certainly have enough fans to disperse it

Yes I checked with Zalman, they have a MS1000 case which is 590 deep and takes full length pci cards and the bottom front drive caddy ahs 3 hot swappable drives, though after my adventures over the last few weeks, I think it would be much easier just to replace my broken caddies rather than rebuild into a new case...

Hey spacef - checked out the link to that sound absorber, looks really great, im defo gonna check that out

yeah, recycling an old case is the cheapest option... at cooltek they have a bigger kit of sound absorber for cheap (it doesn't seem to be available in the shops i know, may be by ordering directly to cooltek) , it is designed for their own cases but with a good sharp cutter (not scissors, it is too dense for regular kitchen scissors), you can cut the foam and tar paper to the dimensions you need (careful not to cut your fingers at the same time