PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

It appears that UA could not make a powerfull dsp solution compatible with Laptops. There is a thread on the UA forum where UA is quoted saying that they will discontinue development for the powerfull Quad dsp Laptop Xpander solution. The primary reason appears to be QUOTE: "It seems that some newer laptops do not seem to be able to get 4 Sharc chips worth of error-free data throughput via their ExpressCard slots. This in mind we decided to cease development of this product due to performance issues. " QUOTE END.

UA so far can only get their SOLO dsp card to work with Laptops.

When Sonic Core release the laptop connector for XITE-1 it really will be a huge accomplishment and a strong show of their great talent so it seems.

Here's the link to the thread - http://www.studionu.com/uadforums/viewt ... =2&t=12445

PS. Altho two people have quoted UA about the discontinuation of the Quad laptop Xpander's development it has not been officially stated by UA yet.

interesting. i did see an XITE connected to a laptop at NAMM...

Wouldn't be surprised... I have never been able to use my RME EC interface with the newer "unibody" Macbook Pros (15"), even though it works perfectly with the older models, and I have found several accounts on the web of people having the same sort of problems with other EC equipment.

I guess that's why they stopped selling those and swapped it for a cheap SD card reader...

I was kind of hoping that it was mainly an Apple problem, it's very bad news if it turns out to be happening in other brands too. I managed to fix my old MBP after a nasty fall, so I can keep on playing, but I'm not sure how long it'll last. It seems that it'll be harder than I thought to find a replacement.

Now that I think of it, the laptop they used for the NAMM show looked kind of old. Do you think this is the end of Express Card, or just some bad engineering that will be fixed in the near future?

I wish I knew...

T

garyb wrote:interesting. i did see an XITE connected to a laptop at NAMM...

...and I have it on video...

Yes, it will be quite an accomplishment...

Greg

we'll have to wait and see, Tau...

garyb wrote:we'll have to wait and see, Tau...

Yup, getting used to that It seems strange to me that something that worked so well in the past gets broken as technology "evolves"... Maybe it's the industry pushing USB3 ?!?!

The unibody MBP has 4 GB DDR3 RAM, while the old one has 2 GB DDR2. I can't get the new one to boot with the Express Card inserted with 4GB RAM, but, if I take out 2GB, it'll boot - but still sound like s**t...

Siriusbliss: I also hope they pull it, but, if the underlying technology regarding EC ports has changed for the worse, maybe it's a dead end street, know what I mean?

This is definitely worth some investigation...

yes, that's how they get us to buy more stuff when we don't need to, forced, artificial obsolescense.

Holger was using the 54mm connector at NAMM but said he wasn't satisfied with the performance/stability. Therefore they have gone for the 34mm size as it seems to be a better choice.
This is exactly what I like about these guys. They don't seem to cave in to the pressure of the hurry up and release, fix later approach when it comes to the hardware side of things.
I can't wait to see them again at NAMM. I believe they might have a booth in the busier section this year.
Great, now I can be tortured by the Drum Gauntlet Isle.........
Actually the best Grooves I heard at NAMM were right past the Softube guys.
Some Brotha' was grooving on a virtual kit running software from Yellow Tools. The snare was awesome as each strike was like a real snare, and even had brushes, press rolls.
I am very close to believing that real drums are close to being replaced. The cymbals and Hi-Hats are the only sounds left. But as of now I would use a hybrid w/ real Zildjans.
I hate the sound of sampled cymbals. They might be passable in an ITB mixdown but live,
That Dog Won't Hunt..

Screw it. They should have waited for USB 3.0.

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote: Some Brotha' was grooving on a virtual kit running software from Yellow Tools. The snare was awesome as each strike was like a real snare, and even had brushes, press rolls.
I am very close to believing that real drums are close to being replaced. The cymbals and Hi-Hats are the only sounds left. But as of now I would use a hybrid w/ real Zildjans.

This is THE platform of my drum rig! I agree...cymbals will be VERY difficult to reproduce. Trigger the drums & use real brass! (Zildjian only in my rig). I don't think the sound will really ever to be reproduced digitally.
The way a cymbal feels when you strike it, and the way it waves after words, as well as the feel of the strike.
When it comes to drums...(bass, snare, toms, etc etc)...the feel of hitting a real drum is easily achieved by using ddrums (version 2 or 3) w/ real drum heads. Take your pick...batterd, hydrolic, pinstripe...get thr real feel of the head & trigger whatever sound source you have.
Having bought a TD-20, I can say (from a drummer's point of view) many sample libraries work great, but the live performance options w/ the TD-20 is by far, the best to date...I will still record & mix in Scope..but having that quality of a sound source, defeats all others..IMHO..

braincell wrote:Screw it. They should have waited for USB 3.0.

Well, it's not out yet, so it may still happen... I wouldn't think that EC would be out of the picture so quickly, but I'm just a dumb consumer, anyway.

I always had the idea, maybe wrong idea, that EC and PCMCIA were the same as having a PCIe / PCI board on a desktop, and therefore more stable and better integrated with the Mobo. I have experienced several problems with USB audio or MIDI cards, and know of others who are also having trouble with FW interfaces. I have been using the same RME Multiface for 9 years now, providing 20 physical inputs and outputs, as well as 20 internal busses, which can all be freely mixed and routed. And rock-solid MIDI. Not one single issue with that.

I had it working with 6ms latency on a 1.6 GHz laptop with 512MB RAM, via PCMCIA, and later with even less via Express Card on the MBP. How can this be obsolete?

And yet, it is. RME still sell their HDSPe, but aside from their now best selling FW interfaces, they are also selling a USB "Fireface", and guarantee a 1.5 ms error-free operation in OSX. I'd much rather stick with my trusty Multiface, though...

PCIe is still a better way to go. Much more direct bus integration within the system.
USB 3.0 may fail before it even sees the light of day.

<also still running my 10-year old RME Multiface I (via PCI cardbus) into my 3-year old laptop - rock solid, low latency>

Greg

Funny thing is that motherboards are just getting updated to use PCI-e audio.
Whatever we see is always for game orientated folks first and audio last.
My RME buddies, and there many here in Nevada, hate firewire, USB and PCI-e from a stability point of view. RME w/ PCI 32bit are better for audio then the Scope cards IMHO. But they have had DAC's more than a couple of times.
I was nervous about the XITE-1 because 2 x Pro builders from SoCal had nothing but trouble w/ PCI-e RME's and other cards too. You can't imagine how happy I was to see the P35 start right up and play.
As much as I want a new mobo and more RAM, I saw the trouble the X58's were having w/ audio and just now are stable. Actually Asus was the only tier 1 builder who's PCI-e slots were trouble free...?
At any rate USB 3.0 will be insteresting to see, but I would never bank on audio through anything other than PCI and PCI-e. Even MIDI through USB sucks so why would I think audio would be any better.
All this stuff sounds good on paper, but at the end of the day. I do exactly as Holger suggests. He said Windows 7, 7 it is. 34mm insread of 54,,. gotcha, and P35/45 instead of X58.... no problemo.
I can only imagine the nightmares of a P55 and USB3, or firewire.....

The problem is that a lot of laptop motherboards are using cheap expresscard slots, *including* possibly the later unibody Macbook Pros. There have been a ton of compatibility issues with expresscard ESATA cards on these Macbook Pros and many other laptops from the "normal" vendors, so I can see how this would affect the higher usage UAD solution as well.

After years of issues most musicians know to get a TI chipset for firewire, but facing a similar issue now with expresscard it's easy to see why it might just be simplar as a support answer to discontinue the product. RME's solutions (multiface/digiface/etc) seem to do ok because they're using less bandwidth in the hands of most users than the upper tier UAD solution and ESATA connected drives and drive arrays (via an external RAID enclosure.)

I guess you're right, Valis. Why a Macbook Pro, being an expensive laptop as it is, needs to have a cheap EC controller is beyond me. I'm guessing the Pro doesn't stand for "professional"...

Interesting, though, that this could bring down an already mature and powerful protocol, and threaten the development of such groundbreaking products as the UAD and, possibly, the EC'ed XITE. I mean, the fact that UAD are discontinuing their product means that they are not very confident in the solving of these issues.

On the older MBP, the Airport card (for Wireless) is also PCIe, although built into the mobo. When I'm using the RME, I can see that the signal strength drops, and sometimes the internet connection is completely lost. Fortunately, the RME takes priority, and audio doesn't drop out.

On a similar note, I had very little issues on the old MBP when using the Magma box via EC with the PCI Scopes: seemed to work very well with SFP 4.5, and, even though there was a significant (though predictable) loss in bw when compared to the internal PCI slots, it was already better than PCMCIA. As soon as I finish the transition to the XITE, I want to try it out with SCP 5 and see the effect of the new drivers.

But I digress- what I mean is: laptops that came out 2 years ago had good working EC slots. Newer ones don't. Apple thinks it's better to do away with EC altogether, rather than cutting their profits by a few dollars / unit and provide us with better quality hardware - that can actually work. Other manufacturers do the same. I don't like the way this is going...

You just gave me an idea Tau, Blutooth synths.............
I'm going wireless. A dual wireless strap on Controller with those Glasses that have the LCD in the lenses.
Then a mini trackball just in case built into the neck of the axe.
I never use the QWERTY or Glidepoint after the DAW gets booted, but a nice feature in case.
Then a Sequenced Elvis outfit greased hair, and the turned up collar.
I can walk around the casino with 2 x wireless Bose monitors on my hip and jack off people while they gamble.
It's insane..............It's perfect...................They'll call me the XITE'd Elvis.......or SYnth Elvis. Hell we have this giant FAT BASTARD who calls himself the 400lb. Elvis and he makes major cash.
WTF.....I have done everything else, and when times get tough..........I'll just get tougher...........I'm gone Brotha's..............Chairman Of The Board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9jPeO0HUOw

and the ladies line up for kisses...

I'll have what he's drinkin'...

Greg

Tau wrote:Wouldn't be surprised... I have never been able to use my RME EC interface with the newer "unibody" Macbook Pros (15"), even though it works perfectly with the older models, and I have found several accounts on the web of people having the same sort of problems with other EC equipment.

I guess that's why they stopped selling those and swapped it for a cheap SD card reader...

I was kind of hoping that it was mainly an Apple problem, it's very bad news if it turns out to be happening in other brands too. I managed to fix my old MBP after a nasty fall, so I can keep on playing, but I'm not sure how long it'll last. It seems that it'll be harder than I thought to find a replacement.

Now that I think of it, the laptop they used for the NAMM show looked kind of old. Do you think this is the end of Express Card, or just some bad engineering that will be fixed in the near future?

I wish I knew...

T

If it is an apple problem it is probably also a problem for anyone else who for some reason decided to use nvidia chipset.

also if it is an apple problem because of the nvidia chipset its quite serious because a lot of manufacturers (especially audio/video) have to make sure it works with their products. (After all, apple is just better!)

the good news is that nvidia is getting out of the chipset business so apple will have to do their cost cutting somewhere else.

Reminds me of something I saw on the Tonight Show. Conan O'Brien asked one of the inventors of USB what he thought of Firewire and he said "Well, most computers today don't have Firewire and they do have USB." O'Brien follows that with "If you saw the guy who invented Firewire and he was homeless and on the street, would you be nice to him?" He answered "Yes".

siriusbliss wrote:PCIe is still a better way to go. Much more direct bus integration within the system.
USB 3.0 may fail before it even sees the light of day.

<also still running my 10-year old RME Multiface I (via PCI cardbus) into my 3-year old laptop - rock solid, low latency>

Greg