PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Hi guys,

I'm still learning as much as I can about Xite before I make the order (probably next week). I do have a couple of questions, though.

1) I understand that there is the XTC mode for using Xite's plugins within a host's mixer as a VST plugin. You can also forego using a host's mixer at all and do everything within the Xite. But is it possible to do both at the same time? For example, I have a couple of tracks where I want to use my favourite VST plugins or even a VSTi plugin and other tracks I want to send to the Xite for mixing, adding dsp effects, etc. Could I do this? use both the Xite's mixer and the host's mixer at the same time to use both native plugins and dsp plugins? I think an either/or situation would be a bit limiting.

2) I've heard glowing reviews about the quality of the dsp synths - Minimax being the 'cream of the crop' of Minimoog emulations. However, I don't hear anything mentioned about the effects. What are they like compared some native offerings e.g. some of the reverbs such as Arts Acoustic Reverb, IK CSR or even the new Lexicon plugins?

Thank you!

Hi,

1) what you mention is not XTC, but normal scope mode. you add your favourite VSTi or VST FX to tracks, pre mix them in the host, and then send them through ASIO for mixing and adding DSP FX in Scope. You can even send back the output (direct, buses or full mix) back to the host for recording these parts.
In XTC, you load the DSP FXs and Synths like regular VST/VSTi, alongside your native VST/VSTi, but they are processed in the DSPs and not in the CPU (same as UAD or Duende).
You can also have a mixer in XTC mode, where you can set up monitoring mixes, add bigger FX chains with zero latency, and so.. but you cannot use Scope's routing window.

2) there are some reverbs in scope which are really nice (X-100 series, DAS). Don't know how they compare to native because I don't use native reverbs. Prob Jimmy V has a better insight on this.
The stock FX are good, and there are some really good third party (DAS, Celmo, Softube, G.O.S.T., SPL, Brainworx, Wolf, and the list goes on....)

I don't use the sequencer/XTC mode so someone else can chime in for that.
I am a live performer and wanted to continue expanding my power, while downsizing from hardware and the older cards. In this endeavor I have succeeded.
I replaced the B3 and Leslie w/ the SC-B2003 and Tube devices.
Sold my Oberheims and bought Bowens synths and now use Modular to replace the FM EPianos and Combo Organ sounds of the TX816.
MY PCM41/42 and PCM81/91 have been sold as the DSP effects excell in the Modulation and Delays, and the reverb plugs are great for live, but for tecording I can only see a PCM96S or Model 7 surpassing the quality of the SC-Plate and SC-Ambience.
If I were to buy the XITE-1 for recording projects I would wait to see the XTC integration with the next revision.
But if you want to get programming and have the best synths, mixers, modulation and delay effects, jump in for the big win.
MIDI and routing are supreme especially for live performance where external analog synths can be routed into Scope for great effects.

These are my reasons for buying.

Thank you both, again! I'm still getting my head around the whole flexibility of the scope platform. I suppose it won't really 'click' until I sit down and spend some time with it.

So is it possible then to have a VSTi in Cubase send it to Xite to add effects, EQ, etc. and then send it back on a individual channel to be mixed back using Cubase's mixer? On the same note, could I have three Minimaxes (for example) send them on individual group channels to Cubase's mixer so that each could have individual VST effects added?

Wow, if only the PCM81/91 can better the Core reverbs then they must be pretty impressive. It's a pity there's no audio demos of them anywhere. XITE-1/4LIVE - well as long as it will be added in the near future. To be honest, I can't really say what would work for me most, XTC mode or 'native' so to speak. If the flexibility is as good as what Pollux is implying (and my questions above are positively answered) then I can't really see why I would need XTC mode.

Is there a list of third party developers of Core plugins anywhere?

Thank you again! Very much!

auricle wrote:Thank you both, again! I'm still getting my head around the whole flexibility of the scope platform. I suppose it won't really 'click' until I sit down and spend some time with it.

get a good cushion.. you might spend quite some hours without noticing it

auricle wrote:So is it possible then to have a VSTi in Cubase send it to Xite to add effects, EQ, etc. and then send it back on a individual channel to be mixed back using Cubase's mixer?

yes.. you can even split it in scope into (for example) three different routes with different FX chains, then send the three back to three sequencer tracks for recording.

auricle wrote:On the same note, could I have three Minimaxes (for example) send them on individual group channels to Cubase's mixer so that each could have individual VST effects added?

Only three?

auricle wrote:Wow, if only the PCM81/91 can better the Core reverbs then they must be pretty impressive. It's a pity there's no audio demos of them anywhere. XITE-1/4LIVE - well as long as it will be added in the near future.

here you can find audio demos for DAS products (including the reverbs)
here you can find audio demos for dynomic and saw
here you can find audio demos for Adern products
and here you can find audio demos for Zarg products
I couldn't find any audio demos for the P-100, but I'm sure Jimmy V must have something under the elbow

auricle wrote:To be honest, I can't really say what would work for me most, XTC mode or 'native' so to speak.
If the flexibility is as good as what Pollux is implying (and my questions above are positively answered) then I can't really see why I would need XTC mode.

I use scope mode for tracking, and XTC mode for mixing. In XTC mode I can control plugins with the control surface, just like any native plugins, and it's easier to have a single screen to deal with.

auricle wrote:Is there a list of third party developers of Core plugins anywhere?

here and here

auricle wrote: Thank you again! Very much!

Have fun

i'd echo everything in this thread and add that if you use vsts in the Cubase track and then send to Scope to use it's prcessing, you'll probably want to finish mixing(combining) the sounds in Scope. no need to return to Cubase for that, even though you can....

Just think of the Scope environment as HARDWARE - with re: to routing in/out of your host (to process VST's in-channel in your host, and then route 'external' to your host out in/out of Scope environment.

I do this a lot (in Samplitude).

Greg

Thank you all. Looks like you can pretty do almost anything regarding routing. This is great because I like to change my workflow every now and then to see if it inspires different kind of music.

Thanks for the links, Pollux - never thought to check the most obvious place, Sonic Core's website

It struck me that there aren't many third party developers for Sonic Core. I also noticed that some developers for Scope haven't updated their websites in years or have mentioned that they have ceased developing altogether. It's a shame and I hope it changes in the future. I suppose developing native plugs is more profitable.

but, be aware that you have to prepare your xtc projekt with mixer, fx chains, master effects ......... before you use the xtc mode.
during the using of the xtc mode, you have no access to the scope surface.

i am using only the xtc mode, btw.

regards, jan

starcorp wrote:but, be aware that you have to prepare your xtc projekt with mixer, fx chains, master effects ......... before you use the xtc mode.
during the using of the xtc mode, you have no access to the scope surface.

i am using only the xtc mode, btw.

regards, jan

Thanks Jan. I didn't know that. Don't you find that a severe limitation?

Just to let you know that I've took the plunge and ordered one this morning!! Yay!!

auricle wrote:

starcorp wrote:but, be aware that you have to prepare your xtc projekt with mixer, fx chains, master effects ......... before you use the xtc mode.
during the using of the xtc mode, you have no access to the scope surface.

i am using only the xtc mode, btw.

regards, jan

Thanks Jan. I didn't know that. Don't you find that a severe limitation?

Just to let you know that I've took the plunge and ordered one this morning!! Yay!!

It's not a limitation at all, just a different workflow
Besides, if you have a mixer like STM4896 in XTC you can build your FX chains on the fly by using inserts and buses. (this is useful for having complex chains and keep 0 latency).
When using Scope FX in XTC directly in the sequencer there is a bit of latency introduced by EACH FX in the chain (channelstrips and multi FX are your friends here ). It's the same with UAD or Duende cards.
From a personal perspective, the value of having everything in a single place, and be able to use native or Scope plugins in a completely transparent way is really huge (so is the ability to control everything with the control surfaces)

Welcome to the fold....

auricle wrote:

starcorp wrote:but, be aware that you have to prepare your xtc projekt with mixer, fx chains, master effects ......... before you use the xtc mode.
during the using of the xtc mode, you have no access to the scope surface.

i am using only the xtc mode, btw.

regards, jan

Thanks Jan. I didn't know that. Don't you find that a severe limitation?

Just to let you know that I've took the plunge and ordered one this morning!! Yay!!

netguyjoel wrote:Welcome to the fold....

Thanks, Joel!! So you're from the land of cheese, beer and fat chicks? UK?

Thanks again, Pollux. I hope with the help of you and other kind souls on this forum I'll get to grips with Xite pretty quickly.

Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA...

auricle wrote:Thanks, Joel!! So you're from the land of cheese, beer and fat chicks? UK?

Netherlands, Germany and... umh, where do the fat chicks come from?

kylie wrote:

auricle wrote:Thanks, Joel!! So you're from the land of cheese, beer and fat chicks? UK?

Netherlands, Germany and... umh, where do the fat chicks come from?

Mmm, for the interests of international diplomacy, I'm not saying anything

Welcome To The Brave New World Brotha'Man.
Wow, to start off using Scope for the first time with an XITE-1 is going to spoil you.
I always liked the sound of the latest RME's over my old cards. But the tables have turned w/ the XITE-1. So you are jumping in to more power, new DAC's and 11 years of maturity.
What CPU/Mobo will you be using..?

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:Welcome To The Brave New World Brotha'Man.
Wow, to start off using Scope for the first time with an XITE-1 is going to spoil you.
I always liked the sound of the latest RME's over my old cards. But the tables have turned w/ the XITE-1. So you are jumping in to more power, new DAC's and 11 years of maturity.
What CPU/Mobo will you be using..?

Thank you very much!! I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty.

I'll be building a new PC so basically I'll have two units. One will be a Hackintosh (to run Numerology and Metasynth) and the other one to run Xite-1, various VST(i)s and Cubase.

My existing machine which currently runs OSX is an Intel Q6600 quad core on an Asus P5B motherboard (quite old now). It runs quite well but is starting to show it's age.

The one I want to build (which will either run Windows 7 or Snow Leopard, don't know yet) is an Intel i7 950 on a Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 board. I've read on this forum that there were problems on an X58 board but they have now been solved with a bios update. I hope that's true!! I chose this board as it's been proven to run Snow Leopard.

i7 is powerful and will be an excellent choice for 64bit when the time comes.
I couldn't believe Gigabyte was so slow with their update. It was the choice for most DAW builders using the PCI 32bit slots, but this is great news from JDunn.
Asus and Gigabyte X58's are good to go, and all older Intel boards w/ PCI-e 1X slots.
I am anxiuous to see another X58 working for reference.

Cheers.

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:i7 is powerful and will be an excellent choice for 64bit when the time comes.
I couldn't believe Gigabyte was so slow with their update. It was the choice for most DAW builders using the PCI 32bit slots, but this is great news from JDunn.
Asus and Gigabyte X58's are good to go, and all older Intel boards w/ PCI-e 1X slots.
I am anxiuous to see another X58 working for reference.

Cheers.

That's good. I'll post my findings when I get everything installed. If it doesn't work on the X58 then I'll use the P5B as I'm 95% sure it'll work on that one.

One question, though. How long is the cable between the PCIe card and the Xite-1 rack unit? My rack is quite a distance from my computer (about 4m) and I'm worried it won't reach.