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was just thinking yesterday.. I'm reading a book on making my networking skills better. (I socialize a lot, but in a sort of random, erratic way) And the first thing was, set a goal. Well, so I thought my goal was to get my music out there. But then I thought, well, ultimately I want to make the world a better place. And by that, I want to bring to light to people that having a clear goal, and being proactive about it, supporting others in pursuing their goals, will make the world a better place. (connect our disconnected society.. in a "real" way, not just facebook and myspace)

Going back to music though.. I'm not really sure if "audio" is necessarily the best way to do that. So I had always sort of kept those two things separate. Music for entertainment, and the Mother Teresa thing as a bigger, lifelong project. (not that I've done anything proactive about it yet) But it would also be cool if those two could be combined.. but I'm not sure how.

It seems much more education that entertainment.. And sadly (also quite rightfully so), many musicians don't think about such things, or don't position their music as that sort of tool. I mean, music as entertainment or as a commercial product is important, and we do need lots of people working in that direction, but it's doesn't correctly send the message I want to send.

So anyway, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think it's even doable?

many drops fill the barrel. if not you, then who?

I try not to use my powers for evil.

if only he had used....

stardust wrote: ... gangsta rap/hip hop...

Anyway even them are working, more or less consciously, to make the world a better place, for someone.

I think I understand Ken's concern, and I share that point of view. Music is a very powerful force, and it can be used in many ways, but, like in so many other aspects of life, there is no clear definition of what is "good" or "bad". We all try to make good music, but we go about it differently - some care more about the sounds, for others it's the chord progressions, others still will be about the beats and so on and so on, but I believe we all try to make something good, that is also new and interesting.

One think I enjoy doing is making songs around texts, spoken words, things that I consider interesting and useful for the listener... In a way that the music reinforces the message, supports it, but is not completely overshadowed by it - after all, I'm not making documentaries, I'm trying to make music!!! But I don't do this all the time, mainly because I also like music without words, but also to overcome the language barrier that may exist between the speaker and the listener. If you care to take a look in MySpace page here, the first 2 tracks there are an example of this - combining music and "information"

But even beyond worded messages, there's still so much information that can be derived from music per se - things like mood, ambiance, change, flow of time, emotion, progression... The imagination of the composer is poured out on the music, as if it is creating a world for the listener to experience and, for a certain amout of time, inhabit. Not a static world, either, but a 4 Dimensional reality (at least) that is going to be home for the imagination of the audience. If we can keep this in mind, we will know how to create musical universes that are filled with possibilities and we will know how to get a person into it and out of it, in one piece.

If musicians decide to use their skills to produce music that is challenging, interesting and informative, it can only be good. But it is also good to make music that is purely entertaining - my body likes to dance, and appreciates crafty beats and hours of bleeping basslines Little message there, but a good DJ knows how to modulate the ebbs and flows to keep the dance floor vibrant without exhaustion, balancing physiology and imagination - and that, in itself, is a "message".

Another thing to be aware is how pop music is used to manipulate people's thoughts and feelings - in fact most pop songs are little more than concentrated, canned, emotional triggers - so you either get with the program, or you won't be broadcast.

Nice topic!

T

stardust wrote:Hmmm ... a better place for these pimps and their chicas when they earned their money with worshiping the ghetto affectation.

yes, there's a lot of that crap, but that's not what most are thinking. it's just all that the powers that be wish to sell.

it's easy to criticize these people, but if you were them, born into what they were and knowing what they know, you'd have a different perspective.

stardust wrote:I dont propagate violence, drugs, crime and materialistic exaggeration.

That sounds exactly like what Governments & the elite have been doing since waaay before Rap music. You can't really blame people for picking things up from their teachers.

I know what you mean to an extent stardust & I'm no real fan of that bling bling RAP culture, but ultimately they're a product of our society like everything else whether it be ill-founded, messed up or otherwise.

stardust wrote:@T

I guess that music - pure music without lyrics - is bound to address these triggers.
You cannot even be sure that your own mood, ambience, idea comes over, since you trigger, suggest, induct only.

Certainly this does not mean to reduce to human races stereotyoes like rythmic moves (sometimes called dancing, joy, sadness, chilling and rage.
But it is at least a more subconscious and therefore less defined language you can speak with your audience.
And it will create different asociations in different social context and experience.

Interesting indeed

I agree - "pure" music can create very interesting effects, as it is closer to a primal form of sensitivity, non-verbal knowledge. Words are bound to encounter some walls in terms of meaning, even though the sound, rhythm and timbre of the voice can function just like any other part in the song. For example, when I listen to someone like Nusrat fateh Ali-Khan sing, I don't understand a single word of it, but I can feel the "message" - although at a more personal level. I also believe that electronics has brought us new levels of listening experience, as we are not so familiar with the instruments anymore, and therefore spend more time listening instead of interpreting.

It's interesting to see how Hip-Hop has traveled throughout the world, and can be heard in practically every language - It's all about the word, and getting the word out to those around you, and the music is there to give it some order, some structure, some way to relate to it and facilitate its apprehension (OK-not completely true - people gather to listen to music and to dance much more than to listen to speeches).

How one can "do good" through music depends on what you're doing, but, just like anything else in this world, if you're doing it from the Heart, it's already good for a start! For me, two things I encountered some years ago made me re-consider what "good" music is, or can be, or can do, and what "bad" music could be. These were the works of Dr. Hans Jenny on Cymatics - showing how sound vibrations affected matter, shaping it into moving patterns of geometric regularity, and the research of Dr. Masaru Emoto on water crystals created by rapidly freezing water after it had been exposed to different stimuli (eg. music) - interesting, considering how much water we have in our bodies.

So if music makes all that, and we make music, what exactly are we making?


T

Tau wrote:considering how much water we have in our bodies.

Sorry if this is going a bit OT, but I find this really interesting in itself. I've always had the concept in my mind that we were mostly made of water, but it would seem plausible that we're actually almost completely comprised of space itself. I'm led to believe that atoms are almost completely nothing. mmmm... maybe I'm getting confused or something.

not really - they say the space between electrons and the atomic nuclei is immense when compared to the size of those particles...

How one can "do good" through music depends on what you're doing, but, just like anything else in this world, if you're doing it from the Heart, it's already good for a start! For me, two things I encountered some years ago made me re-consider what "good" music is, or can be, or can do, and what "bad" music could be. These were the works of Dr. Hans Jenny on Cymatics - showing how sound vibrations affected matter, shaping it into moving patterns of geometric regularity, and the research of Dr. Masaru Emoto on water crystals created by rapidly freezing water after it had been exposed to different stimuli (eg. music) - interesting, considering how much water we have in our bodies.

Right, that sounds something more towards musical therapy, or whatever the real name for the genre of medical application of sound is. For me, it's more along the lines of social / mental change, most likely starting with a change in one's cognitive / conceptual structure, and the sum causing a social change. I mean, it's very debatable whether it can be done literally with audio, but that's the sort of end result that I wished I could achieve. Actually, it's not even that I want this, I think we all need something like this.

kensuguro wrote: Right, that sounds something more towards musical therapy, or whatever the real name for the genre of medical application of sound is. For me, it's more along the lines of social / mental change, most likely starting with a change in one's cognitive / conceptual structure, and the sum causing a social change. I mean, it's very debatable whether it can be done literally with audio, but that's the sort of end result that I wished I could achieve. Actually, it's not even that I want this, I think we all need something like this.

Yes, it came out too technical... These pieces of research simply serve to demonstrate clearly the effect of sound on matter. It's tangible and real, but still, I don't have a freezer in the studio to evaluate the effects of my music on water crystals, nor do I mean to imply that there is such a benchmark for the "goodness" of music or sound... That would be paralyzing... But it's something to take into consideration, that music has the power to do good, wonderful things. My whole concept of music changed after I realized that - not that I know more, just think about it differently.

What I don't get is the "literally with audio" part, do you mean just music (no video, etc), or just sound (no words)? What do you feel you could be doing more in terms of your music in order to reach that "end result" you talk about?

Personally, I like this style: The Shamen with Terence McKenna - Re:Evolution this is a performance, but there was also a studio-version vinyl, and the album artwork had the transcription of the whole monologue. Independently of musical taste, this was a sinergy between some musicians and a philosopher, combining efforts to create artifacts (text-music-artwork) and events (rave-ritual-performance) that were meant to help change people's concepts of reality.

Cheers,

T

boy, that druggie sure gets around....

it's best to keep these things very simple. soon it becomes difficult to even recognize what is good, or better...

garyb wrote:boy, that druggie sure gets around....

Terence was great. Here's another one (druggie, that is): The road to the western lands - William S. Burroughs and Spring Heel jack

garyb wrote:it's best to keep these things very simple. soon it becomes difficult to even recognize what is good, or better...

Sure thing. My only point was to show how "doing good" can be seen from many perspectives, and that's just because I'm trying to understand what Ken is asking. To put it simply:

Tau wrote:How one can "do good" through music depends on what you're doing, but, just like anything else in this world, if you're doing it from the Heart, it's already good for a start!

(the rhyme was unintended)

Marshall Mcluhans famous quote is "The medium is the message "
Music is music is music ... no-one can make the recipient feel what they want them to feel . Did Lennon/ McCartney write helter skelter for Manson ...no I dont think so ...I really liked helter skelter but it didn't make me want go out and commit mass murder . I dont play whatever I play for other people I play it for myself and if there is a possibility to connect with someone in the process then thats great . Music is music ...just be happy you got it and feel sorry for the poor saps that dont know . I think you are better off commiting "random acts of kindness" than trying to steer something no one really understands ...even an A and R sort of guy

We like to think there is a universal truth in "good" music but in reality most people don't speak your language unless you cater to the lowest common denominator which in my book would disqualify it from being "good". I'm an elitist. I think most people are idiots and/or from another planet.

an elitist, but not of the elite....that makes one suicidal, or naive....

music is just an aspect of our behavior. good people try to do good things, for the most part....

-btw-manson didn't do what he did because of the song, no matter how popular the idea. those slayings were strictly ritual magic from an Order of the Golden Dawn and OTO-style practitioner....