PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Since Astro mentioned he bought Band In A Box, I was thinking about it and I gave the demo a try today.

Like a lot of people I always thought that Band In A Box was nothing more than a glorified drum machine but after playing with the demo, I can say it is a lot of fun. Adding and substituting chords is really easy and I'm no chord expert. Then I read this:

The amazing “Chords from MP3″ feature (Audio Chord Wizard) automatically figures out the chords from any MP3, WAV or WMA audio file, and displays them in Band-in-a-Box. Just load in any MP3 file and you’ll instantly see the chords. The Audio Wizard also figures out tempo, bar lines, key and fine-tuning from the MP3, WAV or WMA audio file.

Does it work? This function is unfortunately disabled in the demo but if it works it is a miracle to me. By converting audio to chords, it would also allow me to export these chords as a standard midi file and or an arrangement. I also could imagine improvising midi without a metronome. The metronome stifles my creativity yet it is important for notes to fall within the bars when sequencing music and when printing music.

i tried that program a few years ago and the interface looked like it was from windows 3.1 and there were billions of mysterious icon buttons all over the place. is it still like that or have they made it a bit useable?

as for reading chords from an MP3, if they did it before celemony melodyne Direct note access is out i will be rather amazed, it is in the realm of possibility though.

maybe just on country music (dont try it on radiohead. it wont work!)

I use it for my piano practice.. it's nice to get the bass as a lot fo the left hand voicings are rootless, and some of the obscure ones can sound pretty strange without the root. i haven't tried the mp3 chord thing tho. I havent' upgraded in a while so I'm not sure it even has it.

Yes the interface is ugly and cluttered. It's seems pretty easy though. The drums are so flat with no velocity but the paid version has real drum loops and other real instruments. They say it's not loops but I'm not sure why it's not because it's real musicians playing. Probably still sounds a bit canned but I'm sure it's better than their midi is. For a song writer making demos it would be great. It makes me want to sing a goofy country song. The jazz chords are interesting to me as well. Maybe one day they will add some unique creative styles but perhaps that isn't what the typical user wants.

well, I've had the version 10 for a couple of years, but really didn't use it much.
The version I received now (2008.5 Pro+) is quite polished and actually looks nice under XP on a wide screen
Menus are still a bit overcowded and some things may take a while to figure out, but it does come with a printed manual which is comprehensive and well written.
For anyone unfamiliar with the concept it's highly advisable to first browse the manual - the program is too complex to succeed on trial-and-error.
On the other hand once you know where to activate your personal choices, it's rather simple to use.

Point is that BiaB really can do a lot, but you typically use only a few aspects at any one time simultaneously - so the rest of the options may look confusing.

As Braincell mentioned there are some surprising options - I wasn't aware of the mp3 thing at all.
Didn't try yet, but if I do, I'll apply it to one of the music files here for download...

I knew about the 'real drums' feature that simply replace the midi drum part (if selected), but I didn't know that they have the same for acoustic guitar and pedal steel guitar.
Again there's an option that you can check that the 'real part' is supposed to replace the midi track. It's more complicated than with drums, though, as you have to identify which part applies. I.e. the drum track is always the drum track, but there may be several guitars or you may want to apply (f.e) pedal steel to violin or something like that.

the 'replace option' is gradually, ranging from 'always' over 'if better than midi' to 'occasionally'
Anyway, those drums I've heard have a nice touch - very(!) different from the midi stuff.
On the other hand you may prefer your own samples via midi (or your favourite kit) as for obvious reason the 'real drums' are a stereo downmix.
As I used BiaB with Proteus VX, which occupied Scope Asio, I had to transfer the 'real drums' via MME - no hickups or timing problems (at quick listen)

This is probably the typical setup for 'classical' practicing of Rock, Jazz and Country
I choose a few 'Standards' from the Realbook and the ad hoc instrumentation is quite usable.
On a large screen you have large letters for the cord progression, in a convenient font so you can watch from quite a distance (it highlights the current bar) - select a few bars and let them loop for a difficult passage, or to find an improvisation.
To be honest, for those into classic songs that program is a bargain - In paid 129 Euro.
You'll find the Real Book and thousands of songs for free download on the net, you can view (print) the score and leadsheets ad infinitum - or the other way around: no need to buy a book of 120 songs if you're only interested in a dozen or so.

but the real fun starts when you (say) pick something like 'Autumn Leaves' and turn it into a different style - say 70's city funk or hip hop.
In those cases you'll probably want to bring in your Scope synths via midi...
Ok, this feature may serve to cheat over a personal (or momentrary) lack of creativity, but you can also develope ways to play those tracks with others (from a different musical background) as you have some common ground.
Or it can inspire new ideas, or whatever - it's pretty convenient anyway

for live performers (with or without audience) they support the Frontier Tranzport - so you can radio-control your DAW - even if it is in a different room.
I'm not sure yet if it really qualifies for on (or behind) stage - if you mistreat it, the app can horribly crash.
But it looks to improve significantly on proper setup.

cheers, Tom

The demo which is version 7 I think gave me the blue screen of death in windows xp. Maybe because I was also using Scope and Cubase.

I don't like the chord font. I know this is what guitarists use in fake books. It is meant to look hand made. It's more difficult to read for me than a standard font and they are huge. For those of us not sitting across the room, we should be able to change the font and font size. If you look at their website though, you can see that aesthetic graphic design is not their forte!

http://www.pgmusic.com/

Thanks for your post Astro. I will watch the tutorials. If you want to do the mp3 thing, I might suggest using something more standard than what we post here. I'm not sure how it would react to white noise and crazy electronic drum beats. I wonder what it does when it does not recognize a chord. I'm also curious about how well it recognizes BPM and tempo, especially in music which is not quantized and played by a drunkard.

well, if memory doesn't betray me even the website has improved...
admittedly - presentation is not their strongest virtue
but I really like that 'ugly' font (MS Comic btw), which is probably a personal preference due to oversensibility of anything evenly patterned.
A 'regular' font would just end like a grid over the bars.
But you can change all fonts as you like (even in size) - I just set set the main display to Arial and guess what ... exactly as I expected one line above.
I like the big size because I can read it without glasses from a 3ft distance

anyway, this piece of sh*t is so much outstanding in it's performance and it's capabilities that I forgive them any lack of graphical skills - if fact there are more than enough fakes out there, only pretending by a super-duper layout ...
(you know that, as I'm repeating myself that this is one of the very few pieces of software engineering that I really admire)

cheers, Tom

Cool

ya, their interface design is the worse I've ever seen. but it's like they jammed 5 programs into one, so I can't blame them. A lot of the generative stuff done in biab is pretty advanced. I mean, simple in theory, but they have the right people with the right backgrounds to be designing the algo. Usually with generative stuff, it's automatically DNA, cellular automata, fractals, and all the other cliche 70's avant garde stuff, ya know how it is.. so, it's very rare to find it applied to something very practical.

Hey! Thanks for the heads up. I had heard about it, but always dismissed it as a sort of "canned" music dispenser. But it does seem pretty useful.

It should be pretty easy to generate whole backing up tracks, then import them to traditional sequencers and combine with some more adventurous synthesis / sound design.

And it look wonderful to deepen the knowledge on chords and harmonies.

Thanks!

T

P.S: Melodyne DNA is (will be) a bit different, as it can not only recognize chords, but actually extract the sound of each note / instrument and present it in an editable way. This depends on its own set of recordings for playback, so it's not exactly the same thing.

B for years but stopped upgrading when they begun the audio mix (real drum) as they midi style decreased in quality.

This soft is very good for practisng or testing harmonic idea ... but IMHO not for basing a song on it (for example listen to keyboard track soloed, you'll understand).

If harmony support is not your need, I'll suggest Virtual band, it make deriving a style from your own datas very simple (cutting and pasting midi parts from the host as style tracks), which will result in more lively results. It will help you to experiment with transposing and ordering/structuring your song.

cheers

Hi stardust:

http://www.midi-plugins.de/mplug/mplug-virtband.html

cheers

I'll try it. It's good that it has VST but I like the way you can select chords by ear in BIAB. That part of BIAB is intuitive. The ability to harmonize any melody is also very useful. Perhaps using both programs would be best.

Hi Braincell

You can check harmonyimprovisor too at:

http://www.xytral.de/

cheers

Thanks, I just tried "Virtual Band". I was able to install it, insert it in a track and load a style but I get no sound when it is turned on. There is no help file or tutorial either and it comes with few styles. The link to the Yamaha style section on the website is a dead link. On the whole, not a good experience .

I just tried Improvisator. I must say I like it. It's only job is to create harmony. Playing live with it on right away sounds like I am playing classical music. It costs more than the basic version of BIAB. The demo cuts every 3rd chord off. I can hear the start of the chord so I think I can fix that. It also has more complex chords if you buy it.

I will have to play with it more and the BIAB demo before I buy one. BIAB has nice harmony but this one seems to have a classical harmony I like or as the author puts it, it is "contenting" .


I give it only 3 out of 4 stars because the price is high for a midi effect.

interesting, Improviser works almost exactly the same as my techno engine, though improviser is more complex.

Hi Braincell,

To setup virtual band:
create a midi track
setup its output to the GM rompler
insert virtual band as insert FX
In the arrange window, select local arrangement
the first item must be the style change, to load the style,,
insert whatever you want as chord, var,,..
start Play, you should see the upper part of the virtual band window displaying what is going on as the ruler advance.

cheers

Thanks, I'll try it again. That seems rather obvious, I must have been tired.