PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Ok, I'm preparing live gigs with my scope rig. It's crazy what I'll be able to do on stage in my solo act.

How can I automate midi map changes? The midi mapping isn't included in the presets, there's a separate bank for it, but I want to be able to switch mapping presets along my normal device preset changes... Any hint on that?

Thanks!

...in fact I can't seem to have my mixer respond at all to patch changes... I've autoindexed the banks and presets, tried bank changes but to no avail, no patch change signal will cause presets to switch. The synths and STS do switch however, so I'm not sure what's going on here...

Are you using a special mixer which has templates and sub presets? If you are you must have a controller which sends information on channel " 00 ".

If you are using an STM1632 I never used it to change presets, it should work.

But changing a mixer's preset should re-load the mixers contents, which in turn will change all of your effects presets for you. That leaves your synths and samplers presets only.

I use Wolf's Program Change device, but Shroomz has a similar device with his usual excellent GUI, and is capable of 16 channel operation not just 8.

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23589

I use a Program Change device for each keyboard controller, and 2 separate MIDI A Source modules that are attached to each controller.

Below is an example of how I ran my live rig before I got Gigastudio 4.

Notice the 2 separate MPC's. One is for synths and mixers, the other for changing the sampler's presets in GVI ( ASIO 2 ).

In this way I can have samples on one controller, and synths and mixers on the 2nd controller.

If you would send me a list of your set-up, I could send you a project using Shroomz MPC and how it would change evrything simultaneously by having a single program change sent to it.


Cheers.

Thanks Jimmy! I configured a setup similar to yours, except I don't use gigasampler.

I tried some more to figure out what's going on and realized that the stm1632 don't respond to program changes while the stm 2448 does... I have no idea why that is... At least I know it can work with another mixer, even tough the 2448 is overkill for my live setup... Do you change your midi mapping live or you use the same althrough your performance? This one I haven't figured out, because ideally I'd have mapping changes from song to song...

Thanks for your help Jimmy, I'll need often before I go out in the world with my SC rig!

E

How many channels will you need live?

List all of the gear you will use and I'd be happy to help a fellow performer.

We are a dying breed. But have the intestinal fortitude to bring this virtual gear to the public, where the audiences are far from virtual, and are our best critics.

I haven't plated live since Februrary except for a couple of sit ins on crappy gear at the Blues & R&B Club I frequent. It's killing me, but I plan on killing them when I return w/ all of this new gear.

I would consider a mixer from SpaceF that is low in DSP consumption, and extremely valuable for controlling MIDI CC's and FX via Program Change Messages.

His options are many, and I have had the priveledge of using them live many times. They are excellent choices for battle.

Lately I have been doing small mixer set ups to have more DSP to program the big synths I will use in XITE-1 next month, so his V82 is an excellent mixer, and the FP106B is equally impressive.

They were meant for live performance via MIDI CC's. Hell even the free mixer 8S is an 8 stereo w/ 2 AUX design that uses very little DSP and responds to MIDI CC's .

I dropped the STM1632 like a hot potatoe way back when and banged SpaceF's ears for an alternative solution. It was a very wise choice.

I have a Pretty simple setup: it's a solo act (unless I find those willing to battle at my side...), I have: a kawai mp9000 master keyboard, a novation x-station secondary keyboard, a non-midi (for now) bass pedal set, an exp pedal and a mic for voice and instruments. I plan to ad a mic on the side so I can come out from behind my massive arsenal and play flute or whatever. Plus, obviously, my SC FX, synths, automation, etc etc.

What is the s8 mixer you are refering to? The 2448 is way too big for my needs, but I'll try to use the tools I have as much as possible, for I have some needed upgrades I must do for my live performances.

You did not answer my question: do you change your midi mappings in the course of your show?

No, I do not change anything, except presets on my MPC's which in turn reload the mixers prest where all the effects presets are located.

I use my controllers and pedals for real time manipulations of effects and synth parameters.

The MPC devices only require a single preset change per song.

Mapping is way too involved and only complicates an already complicated performance.

Keep it simple, yet your creation of complex mixes, etc. will require some attention and lots of time when programming them. But live, you need to perform instead of staring at your LCD.

Unless you are not embarresed about having a chubby ass, you should always keep eye contact with your audience and try not to turn your ass in their face by staring at your LCD.

Here's an old pic of the 8S for quick small gigs that don't require heavy synths, but are great for samplers and such.

More like a Blues club where one project will work, and 8 to 10 instruments from your sampler can cut the mustard.

The ASB B4000 was used here, as it sounds better than the B2003, and requires live drawbar control w/o MIDI program change messages.

Kewl! Yes indeed, I want to be able to turn off the monitor when playing! I'll be singing most of the time anyway, so I won't be able to stray from the mic anyway!

There are workarounds to changing the midi assignments, but it would be useful if say, in one song I want my exp pedal to raise the aux2 send, and in the next one I want the aux2 send to remain fixed while my exp pedal performs other tasks. Theorically, a midi mapping preset should be handled like any other preset... I'll investigate some more and keep you posted.

You say the S8 mixer is free? Could you send me a copy? I'm redoing my setup with the 2448, at least it does preset changes and I won't likely max it out!

This is a new universe opening for me, to have such power in a live setting, I'm thrilled that I can sound like a band on my own (almost) and have such a variety of sounds and FXs to play with. It will be a great show to travel around with!

Thanks again brotha' man Jimmy, you're such a positive and helpful presence on this forum, much appreciated!

E

Also of interest is a small piece of hardware called the FP8.

It allows you to use 8 different types of sustain, expression, or toggle type controllers which are re-mappable. But I still don't advise using re mapping during a gig. MIDI is very unstable when switching comes around, but if left alone, it is a superb way to control parameters.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodf8.htm

This is my choice, and I have 8 types of controllers. 2 x pedals, 2 x switches, and 4 x expression types.

I use them for rate / depth of effects, toggle on / off controls, and especially one for the Waz-S wah-wah made by SpaceF also.

I happen to have the most versatile wah-wah pedal ever made. Even though it is a software device, I use it as a hardware device thanks to MIDI and my fast left foot.

Other pedals can do Formant Filter sweeps, and choke off envelopes, or add higher release values to an envelope, etc.

I use MIDI probably more than most Scope guys do, but I only was trying to emulate the control that hardware offerred me in the past. Scope seems to have that abaility thanks to some hardware and SpaceF's Black Box II.

I will ask Mehdi if it is O.K. before I make any promises. The mixer I think was on the device thread at one time butr I could be mistaken.

Let m,e verify this, and I will get back to you.



We Are Neighbors, We Are Also Brotha's Of Scope.

Woah, this preset thing is buggy man!! I routed my midi to 2 of Shroom's preset dispatcher, one routed to the mixer and the other to the sampler/synths... It's not working well at all... It works and when I change patches on my master keyboard it stops working, I hope I'm doing something wrong, because It's not really usable as it is... I'll try to figure it out. Did you ever encounter this kind of behaviour?

And the 2448 presets configurations actually change on their own, like a channel that was mono becomes stereo and stuff like that, which I never saved... I really hope I'm doing something wrong otherwise it's hopeless... Or maybe 3rd party's mixers will work better... Wolf's mixer seems top-notch...

I'll let you know if I fix it... Which mixer is your favourite Jimmy?

Sorry to hear about that. I use Wolf's MPC and never really used Shroomz except to test it, and it did work, but I remember that there was something about it I didn't like. You should see if he remembers any troubles it might have had,

I happen to be fond of DAS, Wolf and SpaceF mixers. It's all about the project at hand though.

In all honesty though I will use all 3 of these guys mixers live for sure.

The DAS mixer I have is perfectly suited for being a live monitor mixer for vocals as the 6 mono AUX channels can be sent to sets of wireless ear monitors, and has talk back features for an engineer ( me ) to use between songs that mutes the mains. Wolf's mixer is great as it has mono and stereo channels, with modular connections, and true strero AUX's. SpaceF's mixers are the ticket for live use as they have so many options and models to choose from. For my live synth projects my favorite mixer is the FB5. It has Valve emulators on all channels, and the AUX channels have a bleedover ability that I never heard of before, but it is an excellent way to blend the AUX's together, and is the most tweakable mixer I ever used in hardware or software. Truly a milestone of sorts.

I personally think that you would be happy to use his FP106B. It is the last in a series of great mixers and has everything you could possibly need for audio as well as MIDI.

Shroomz even has one these I believe. You should PM him about the MPC, and the FP106B. Perhaps all of your questions on both items will be answered.

I Wish You Well.......There Is A Serious Lack Of Live Performers These Days. Especially Ones With Scope. I Plan On Changing That This Coming Year !!!

Then we shall fight side by side! I am extremely thrilled by the live performance I'm putting together...

I had another round with my system, trying to have it obey my commands... er... patch changes... it's hopeless, the 2448 mixer is seriously bugged! It's truly a show-stopper, I won't argue with it much more and get something serious for live use. Incredible, I've been using it for years without much problems, but within 24 hours of trying to configure it for live use I'd throw it out the window. And so with the 1632. I'm not happy with that, first time in all my years with scope where I'm stopped by bugs. Well... I'll try another route then... I'll try spacef's demos and see if fits the bill...

E

aarr... I'm lost here... I installed spacef's FP106 mixer, made presets, they change alright when I click on them in the preset window, but do not respond to prg change messages either... That's good news, I must do something wrong... But... I don't see what... The mixer midi channel is set to omni, the midi monitor sees my prg change messages come through, but the mixer won't budge... I can assign knobs controls from my master keyboard and control thye mixer... I tried with the shroom's patch change dispatcher, alas, nada, the mixer doesn't respond...

I need help here...

I must see a pic of your project window.

That would help me a little better to understand what you are trying to achieve, and which controller is sending the MIDI CC's etc.

I will check in with you everyday till we sort this out.

There's a big difference from laying down tracks one at a time, to actually loading up your project window and making your gear work together all at once 'eh?

I must get some sleep. QWave has been my fun today and making presets for that was a major chore. It has drained me of my common sense, but I will hear that synth dancing through my head as I sleep tonight.

I shall check back here tomorrow after my chores and appointments have been concluded.

Also see if this is useful, it can do some time saving chores for you.

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... highlight=



Bonne Nuit Mon Ami,

Merci Jimmy! There's not much to see for now, I have my scope midi source directly connected to the midi in of the mixer, and I throw prg changes at it from my keyboard (or shroom's mpc for testing purposes)... As of now spacef's mixer doesn't respond to those messages, although I can switch from preset to preset manually. At least with the 2448 it changed presets sometimes...

Yes it's another ball game to have everything flawlessly flow from one tune to the next at the push od a button... I'll try some more later today and we'll figure this soon I hope!

Arrivederci!

Is it the X-Station your MIDI CC controller, maybe that's the problem?

SpaceF's mixers are designed to use like this. That's their sole purpose other than having those fantastic sub presets and true stereo AUX's.

I hope to have it solved by the end of the day...
I've loaded Wolf's mixer and wow! what a layout! But where on Earth is the master preset button??? One mention of it in the manual, but nowhere to be found...? Can you enlighten me Jimmy? -or anyone?

ok found it, I had to click on the preset slot on the live bar... but still no patch change tho... :-//

I just got back from the eye doctor and have a little time between my next appointment.

Are you using USB MIDI ?

If so, that might be the problem.

It never worked for me, so I would use MIDI + USB.

I had the USB for powering up the controllers w/o having to use the 12 volt adapters. Then disabling the USB port. Sounds strange but it would still provide enough juice being disabled to power up the USB controllers, while using MIDI cables. The best of both worlds.

I really need to know every little detail to help you out of this jam though.

Your exact controller model number, MIDI or USB cables, etc.......everything. Or this will take forever to figure out. Trust me, the hit and miss scenario you are experiencing sounds like the USB jive.

USB is as worthless as FireWire. All hype. Just read the RME site for reasons not to use it. Sure they have a firewire card, and many pros like Larry Seyer bought into it. RME was desparate to gain back market share they lost to M-Audio, who makes really cheap affordable crap, like my controllers, so they started making cheaper cards, and most of their low end products stink from what I have been told.

Stay w/ the MIDI protocol, or trouble will surely occur.

Hello again, I'm not using usb midi, just to power up my x-station. In my latest attempts, I plugged my kawai mp9000 directly into my scope midi in, and I use the midi monitor to see which controllers are transmitted through... I see the cc0 actually being registered on the midi monitor, but no preset change occurs on the mixer. As I said, I also tried to send my cc0 from shroom's mpc direct into the mixer and the same thing happens: the cc0 messages register on the monitor but no reaction from the mixer...