PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

After having to deal with various DRM, I have concluded that the Syncrosoft dongle is the best DRM. I have used Cubase, Vienna Instruments, Native Instruments and Creamware. The Creamware DRM is by far the worst to deal with when you want to transfer keys followed by NI. With the Syncrosoft dongle, you can easily do it yourself without having to connect to a website or email someone or call anyone and it's free and unlimited.

I have some keys I want to transfer through Sonic Core but I am afraid to. The last time, it took many emails and cost money. Mistakes were made.

What's a DRM?

Thankyou Zer. And Braincell.

braincell wrote:With the Synchrosoft dongle, you can easily do it yourself without having to connect to a website or email someone or call anyone and it's free and unlimited.

if "having to connect to a website" includes the automatic connection the LCC does when applying changes, it's only partly true.

for adding a license key you have to have a working internet connection, as well as for transferring a key from one dongle to another.

it's very convenient, anyway. I also like the wibu key that came with reaktor 3. they provide a network license daemon (even for linux). I never tested that here, but it reads like it should work

the CW/SC licensing mechanism can't be really compared to synchrosoft, since no software using the LCC is bound to a specific piece of hardware.
CW/SC keys are just different. but the way they worked for me (until now) is far more comfortable than the NI challenge/handshake mechanism.

-greetings, markus-

I have just learned that under Native Instruments, they no longer "deauthorize" machines which is good news! Legally, you are not allowed to have the software on more than two machines but technically you can. This makes it a lot easier. It worried me before that if I accidentally deauthorized a machine, it could never be authorized again. They probably had a lot of angry people regarding that issue.


The process is easier than it used to be.

If you have several NI products made by different companies, a new installation is a pain because you have to navigate a maze of web pages at different sites to make sure you have all the most recent updates. It would be better if the software had an update button.

I recommend that anyone using East West software get the direct from disk update (DFD) if you don't already have it.

The Creamware system seemed like a good idea at first but when you have a lot of software and a lot of hardware, it gets complicated. Yes, it is bound to the hardware but only because they made it that way. It doesn't have to be.

I am not totally against DRM but this is the worst kind of DRM. I feel restricted. I may want to transfer software and then change my mind and transfer it back. That gets expensive. Let the customer easily do what he or she wants with what they bought.

braincell wrote:I have just learned that under Native Instruments, they no longer "deauthorize" machines which is good news! Legally, you are not allowed to have the software on more than one machine but technically you can. This makes it a lot easier. It worried me before that if I accidentally deauthorized a machine, it could never be authorized again.

ah, yes, deauthorizing was the magic word
it was mainly for the purpose of getting the license freed from a machine being so screwed up that reinstalling windows was the only solution to get it back to life. unfortunately this procedure invalidates the machine id the license is bound to.
I kinda remember that you were allowed to authorize 2 machines at the same time for being able to use the sw at home and mobile, but of course not concurrently. is that still true?

I'm still fond of dongles. if the ilok wouldn't incorporate that huge transfer fees for some items, it would be more attractive, also, since you can transfer licenses from one to another over the internet, while transferring from and to synchrosoft dongles requires both dongles to be connected to the same machine.

-greetings, markus-

NI licenses= 2 machines , no problem....

braincell wrote:...The Creamware system seemed like a good idea at first but when you have a lot of software and a lot of hardware, it gets complicated. Yes, it is bound to the hardware but only because they made it that way. It doesn't have to be...

it is always bound to hardware, there's no other way to do it.
No matter if it's a checksum of your machine, a PCI card or any type of dongle.
I've spent more than just hours on the subject, when I had to develope a scheme to reliably prevent copying corporate databases

cheers, Tom

Sure there is another way. Take out th DRM and use Syncrosoft DRM instead.

Here is how it would work: When you boot up the SFP, instead of looking at your card for DRM, it looks at the Syncrosoft Dongle(s). All the software you use must have a key on the dongle. If there is no key, those modules will not load.

You may then move the dongle to another computer, or you may move certain keys to another dongle and then to another computer. You don't have to bother Ralf, and you don't have to pay $50.

It is so much better. This should be obvious to each and everyone here and to the SC staff.

I referred to your statement that a (reliable) protection is possible without hardware - a dongle is hardware, too - as mentioned above.

Anyway, the synchrothing is a piece of poo - just enter 'nuendo 3 cr*ck' in Google and you know about it's efficiency...
there were also quite a number of problems mentioned with the license servers for that dongle

your motivation to 'move' the Scope license is fairly exotic imho - if you really need mobility of your Scope rig, you can always buy an appropriate PC right from the shelf - those industrial shoe-box like things.
Considering the overall count of users there are probably less than 5% who have more than one DAW, aka studio-home configuration, where they 'need' to move keys.

cheers, Tom

Synchrosoft works by decrypting certain parts of the software on the dongle through the USB bus. This is a ridiculous thing to do, and compromises performance. I certainly wouldn't want a Synchrosoft dongle anywhere near my audio machines. Universal protections are shit - firstly the vendor has to pay a very large sum of money for the privilege of using it (guess who actually ends up paying this fee ), and secondly, once the protection is cracked, it's open season on anything that uses it. It's a protection racket in every sense of the word. Ilok is a prime example of this. Synchrosoft-protected software tends not to be cracked anymore because of the amount of time to decrypt it by brute force. But the downside is that all this shit is being piped through the USB bus constantly. No thanks, the card-as-dongle approach is a clear winner for me.

As a consumer cracks are not my business. I only care about ease of use. If it is going to be totally annoying and even cost money to transfer keys and then have to go through email and wait etc.. then to hell with them. There should be no DRM in that case. Either they do their job so it is transparent or no DRM. This is bullshit. This is not a charity. I do not exist to ensure the well being of Sonic Core.

Arnold J. Rimmer would agree....

braincell wrote:As a consumer cracks are not my business. I only care about ease of use. If it is going to be totally annoying and even cost money to transfer keys and then have to go through email and wait etc..

cracks are definitively your business. just because you're a honest customer it does not automatically mean others are, too.
the need of constant key transferring is, as somebody said, most probably limited to a very small group of people. and SC never offered the key transfer possibility as a major feature of scope. they made it possible, yes, but they didnt have to. others even don't offer that possibility.

and just because it's a dongle it does not automatically mean transfers are free. I read that when transferring a license off an ilok you have to pay ilok for the transfer itself (and that was not cheap) and in some cases (I know at least that sonnox wants some serious money) an additional fee from the software company itself. ah yes, and for being able to use software that uses that dongle you have to buy it separately if your software vendor does not put it into the box.

every protection scheme has its own annoyances. if there is one that annoys you beyond reason be consequent and avoid it.

-greetings, markus-

And if you lose your dongle or it gets stolen - bye bye software. Rather more difficult to misplace a PCI card.

darkrezin wrote:And if you lose your dongle or it gets stolen - bye bye software. Rather more difficult to misplace a PCI card.

there are approaches to minimize that risk by selling you some vault coverage for your dongle. ilok does something like that.
a pci card with authorizations bound to it can die as well.
don't know how SC/CW will handle that case, but a license transfer of all keys should definitively be possible, and maybe they allow for some discount to the fee if the card is really broken...

-greetings, markus-

I just don't see how they would give you the keys again for free if you lost the Ilok? I mean - what if you just lied about losing it? If they gave you the keys again then you have 2 copies.

Or is it an insurance-type continuous payment that discourages fraud?

darkrezin wrote:I just don't see how they would give you the keys again for free if you lost the Ilok? I mean - what if you just lied about losing it? If they gave you the keys again then you have 2 copies.

Or is it an insurance-type continuous payment that discourages fraud?

that's it (from what I read). they speak of RMA in that context, so maybe you have to send in your broken key. the "insurance" (they call it zero downtime coverage) lets you have temporary licenses transferred to a new ilok if yours is broken or stolen. what exactly happens with stolen iloks I did not figure out completely, maybe the insurance covers that only partly. it's nevertheless an interesting faq which I did not read in full. there are also companies using the ilok protection that do not allow transfers off a dongle. seems the software kit which is used to protect the runtimes allows the vendor to a certain degree what the customer is allowed do with his license and what not. there may be cases where selling the license with the ilok containing them and getting a new one is the best or even the only option.

caveats everywhere, as I said before. it is surely a good advice to check the kind of protection before buying anything, if the way it is done and being handled is important for you.

-greetings, markus-

It is important. That is why Apple iTunes is evil. A lot of companies are now taking a second look at DRM. Native Instruments can get away with it because they have some very unique software. If there was an identical alternative with no DRM, I would surely pick that. Like I said before, since they changed their policy it is easier. I have to think it was due to customer demand. I can remember an angry phone call I had with them early on about this. As usual, they insisted there was nothing wrong with the DRM policy but I see that they did give in. If you are unhappy about something you could shop elsewhere but another tactic would be for everyone to complain. In the end, they do want happy customers.