PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Hi
Just starting with a Pulsar system I bought a while ago. Doing tests with Ableton Live, triggering Creamware synths and also processing loops through creamware effects inserted into one of the mixers.

The problem I am having is that I am receiving latency. I thought Creamware was "zero latency" effects etc?

Ableton Live midi is routing directly to the Creamware synth then back into an ASIO input I record in Ableton. When I look at the midi notes compared to the recorded file in Ableton, there is definitely a lag -- 30 ms or so in some cases.

Similarly, running a channel through a Creamware STM mixer. Put a simple filter on the track, routing it to an ASIO destination. Record that in Ableton and compare, and the beats are not in sync.

I am not sure why it is out of sync since all of this is being done digitally, no external cables or patching.

Can anyone shed any light on this issue?

thanks!
decon

yes, it's easy:-)
Scope is - internally - practically latency free, indeed, thanks to the realtime DSPs (it reacts exactly like a 'hardware' synth, concider your Scope computer as a synth).

So if you play a Scope synth through the Midi In on the card, you play and hear instantly.

ASIO on the contrary is not latency free.
In fact you have two times ASIO latency: you send and then recieve!

44,1 samples make a latency of 1/44100 sec, so 30 ms means a latency of 1323 samples.
Cubase handles latency while recording by compensating it automaticly, I can't believe Live doesn't

I have to admit I always push the recorded audiofile on it's zero place, as I'm used to see a delay of about 60 samples, 1,5 ms.
Not sure if that was only on old Cubase 5.

For live playing 30 ms is too much of course.
Live didn't process midi so well in the past, but I thought that time is left behind.

By adjusting SFP latency in the settings (ULLI, ultra Low Latency thingie) you more or less stress the PCI bus (hear me talking ).
So there's interaction with your computer setup/config regarding chosing the right settings.
check for delay compensation in Live together with ULLI settings to get the max.

and, midi has also a delay, if I'm right about 1 ms per port.
not sure about computer internal midi processing, it will be more probably.
I can switch between card input and sequencer software thru put, if this does help you.

don't forget: some Scope insert effects produce latency by nature, like side chained processing, TFT processing, in fact every insert plusses to the basic minimal latency of DSP, but this is normaly minimal.

Thanks for the information. That makes sense, though I wish it wasn't that way!

I have heard about XTC plugins -- is that a way around this issue? To host one of Creamware's plugs directly inside the sequencer? How do you enable that?

What I really want to do is be able to host filters and compressors etc directly inside of the software and then the automation recordings would work correctly. I can deal with synths being a bit later, I understand it is just like a hardware synth and I remember having to fix these issues before with mine.

I bought the Pulsar a few years ago but then never really used it because I moved, started new job, and all that stuff and am just now getting back to working with software. I could try the same trick with Cubase to see if it auto compensates but the only way I can see compensating in live is to set the negative MS value on the midi before it sends to the synth. That seemed to work reasonably well.

I guess in a sense with compressors etc it wouldn't matter if all I am doing is a final mixdown, since every channel should be delayed the exact same amoutn when recording. The problem would just be if I wanted to process and record back into Ableton to add to the project -- then the audio would need to be corrected to match the project and be in sync.

I still love the ability to be able to do proper sidechaining compression on a huge range of channels automatically and all of the routing options with Scope. The synths sound pretty good as well

XTC will make latency possibly even worse.
Using your card as XTC doesn't mean the DSPs aren't working...
SFP then works in the background (closed even!).
ASIO latency is still inevitable.

XTC isn't supported anymore since years by creamware-now SonicCore,
With some tweaking you get it working tho.
I'm on mac, and XTC was never implemented for mac, so I'll leave this to others here.
Most will say don't use it, as you will loose the routing possibilities and most of it's flexibility.
There are some satisfied heavy duty XTC users tho

You could try to pm member Borg, he knows Live very well, but doesn't hang around on planetz so much anymore.

You know oddly enough I reinstalled Scope 4.5 and then started a new project and was able to get it to record back in with no perceivable latency, even when I zoom in on the Waveform. Maybe a fraction of a MS if anything.

I am thinking that maybe I changed a setting on Scope or Ableton and got something out of sync before and that is why it wasn't compensating for the delay correctly. Because I just tried processing a track with Vinco and a filter and everything seemed to line up.

Yeah! Glad it worked. It was what I intended in the first place.

Did not try synths yet but for in channel processing it seems the delay is so minor I can't tell it is there.

it could be that you had the ASIO1 module in use, and now ASIO2.
Maybe ASIO2 is better regarding latency and Live.
glad you solved it

I use the ASIO II 24bit Module in a VST shell, and experience no latency playing live.

This was a big relief, as I spent tons of cash on stuff before I tried it.

I trusted various members of the forum, and their advice was sound.

what do you mean " I use the ASIO II 24bit Module in a VST shell"?
thanks!

he loads vsts in bidule.

thanks!