I just recieved some information in regards to my Modular quests. It seems as though I have a way to do this. Below is a reply to a request I made at MOTM, and now all I need is one of the ModGodz here to explain what I would need on the Modular side of the equation.
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Well, it all depends if you can generate (directly or indirectly) the necessary
control voltages to drive the filter. Remember, as you play each note, the VCF
is dynamically changing in 2 ways at once:
a) the cutoff frequency is changed based on the note played
b) the filter is swept by an envelope generator
Simply passing audio through an external filter is just a glorified tone
control. The filter has to be swept in sync with the note.
This is assuming a monophonic setup.
Now, if you have access to the MIDI stream, your best bet is to us a MIDI-CV
converter to generate the 1V/Oct needed to set the VCF cutoff, and then use a
MOTM-800 EG to sweep the VCF. So, this needs 4 modules:
MOTM-900 Power Supply
MOTM-440 VCF
MOTM-800 EG
MOTM-650 (or equivalent) MIDI-CV
Paul S. MOTM
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These modules are 5U high and will be racked up in a 10U SKB Shock Rack, so when GaryB visits the LCD might be at eye level for him as he is 6'6" I believe !! I saw a must have CS-80 BP which was feature that I did like on the CS-80, and could never get that sound since. Others will follow.
This sounds so sweet to have the flexibility and un reproducable software modules mixed with the real thing also. I hope it works.
Thanks Alfonso, Shroomz, and SpaceF.
Also Thanks In Advance To Anyone Here Who Helps My Lame Ass Succeed In This Endeavor.
COULD THIS DOG HUNT ?
MOTM Analog Filters Into Modulars 8 x 8 Shell
I think that this solution is particularly expensive and doesn't make use of all the cool modulation possibilities that a FleXor ramp followed by shapers or the Pattern lfo or all the fast envelopes you already have in the Modular and the endless possibilities to change....You buy 1000 bucks or more of gear just to have an external filter following an E.G. and the notes....triggered just by the MIDI note you play...
I think that you should just send these modulation signals generated in the modular to a dedicated audio output and then find the way to amplify them in order to get the proper voltage values. If it's workable, it shouldn't cost you more than few 10's of circuitry to amplify the modulation signals tplus the hw filter module you like, being the endless sound design possibilities the real advantage.
You must investigate the issue with a good electronics technician who doesn't actually sell synth modules.
It seems obvious and understandable that at MOTM would like to sell you a whole modular, but hey, you got it already!
I think that you should just send these modulation signals generated in the modular to a dedicated audio output and then find the way to amplify them in order to get the proper voltage values. If it's workable, it shouldn't cost you more than few 10's of circuitry to amplify the modulation signals tplus the hw filter module you like, being the endless sound design possibilities the real advantage.
You must investigate the issue with a good electronics technician who doesn't actually sell synth modules.
It seems obvious and understandable that at MOTM would like to sell you a whole modular, but hey, you got it already!
That's why I need your help my Brotha'.
This is an example of why I seek advice from members, as I know what motivates the gentlemen.
I simply want to add the analog sound to an already awesome, mature application.
I know that this app is THE APP for creating completely new, as well as old style sounds. The patches and tutorials have shown me that, I just need to throw in some old fashion meat and potatoes.
I wouldn't know where to start, what do you ask to have built ? I have no idea what to ask for, or have done. I am able to pay a healthy consulting fee to anyone who can help me w/ this quest.
Some people assume I am quite knowledgable on such matters, I assure you I am not. I'm simply a player who has decades of experience using what other people have made. So I KNOW the sounds of yesterday, and the sooner I captivate those, the sooner I can creat the new sounds I hear while I sleep. This is why I became dis interested in Modular before. I noticed it's lack of a fierce filter. Since this can't be made w/o voltages etc., I just want to add what I feel would make this app one that would make a real modular expert take notice. I am a firm believer that Scope has provided us the best possible tools to use for sound design, and there's a reason why they can't cop the real analog filter sound, because it isn't analog.
I quit school in 3rd grade, because they had recess,......and I don't play.
I Am Dead Serious About This !!
This is an example of why I seek advice from members, as I know what motivates the gentlemen.
I simply want to add the analog sound to an already awesome, mature application.
I know that this app is THE APP for creating completely new, as well as old style sounds. The patches and tutorials have shown me that, I just need to throw in some old fashion meat and potatoes.
I wouldn't know where to start, what do you ask to have built ? I have no idea what to ask for, or have done. I am able to pay a healthy consulting fee to anyone who can help me w/ this quest.
Some people assume I am quite knowledgable on such matters, I assure you I am not. I'm simply a player who has decades of experience using what other people have made. So I KNOW the sounds of yesterday, and the sooner I captivate those, the sooner I can creat the new sounds I hear while I sleep. This is why I became dis interested in Modular before. I noticed it's lack of a fierce filter. Since this can't be made w/o voltages etc., I just want to add what I feel would make this app one that would make a real modular expert take notice. I am a firm believer that Scope has provided us the best possible tools to use for sound design, and there's a reason why they can't cop the real analog filter sound, because it isn't analog.
I quit school in 3rd grade, because they had recess,......and I don't play.
I Am Dead Serious About This !!
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hubird
Thanks Hubird,
Modular / Flexor III are the apex of virtual modular synthesis IMO, but w/ a way to incorporate a couple of real analog filters, I believe that it could be a fabulous way to make new content as well as old.
I have had such good success w/ using virtual and analog together that I must achieve this. Just adding a real hardware synth into a Scope project has shown me that the filters are only capable of an emulation. There is a distinct difference to my ears, but the Achilles Heel of the analog hardware is it's lack of all of the great modules that Adern and others have created here in Scope. I am simply looking at the best of each app, and trying to combine them. I am sure that Assaf would agree that if you want analog, you should get one. Well I want both, and plan on finding a way to get them. Who knows, maybe I might be able to contribute something for us by pursuing this hybrid dream. Sure I have much to learn, but I do not want to learn more until my ears are satisfied. Afterall my ears have brought me this far, to go for a simple all virtual, or all analog solution would not satisfy my needs, as I believe the future of synthesis is sound + flexibility.
I have taken CW's B2003 to another level by combining devices I had made for controls, and by adding the real rotary sound to an excellent model. That is one example of hybrid. I cannot sleep until this is realised.
Relentlessly Yours,
Modular / Flexor III are the apex of virtual modular synthesis IMO, but w/ a way to incorporate a couple of real analog filters, I believe that it could be a fabulous way to make new content as well as old.
I have had such good success w/ using virtual and analog together that I must achieve this. Just adding a real hardware synth into a Scope project has shown me that the filters are only capable of an emulation. There is a distinct difference to my ears, but the Achilles Heel of the analog hardware is it's lack of all of the great modules that Adern and others have created here in Scope. I am simply looking at the best of each app, and trying to combine them. I am sure that Assaf would agree that if you want analog, you should get one. Well I want both, and plan on finding a way to get them. Who knows, maybe I might be able to contribute something for us by pursuing this hybrid dream. Sure I have much to learn, but I do not want to learn more until my ears are satisfied. Afterall my ears have brought me this far, to go for a simple all virtual, or all analog solution would not satisfy my needs, as I believe the future of synthesis is sound + flexibility.
I have taken CW's B2003 to another level by combining devices I had made for controls, and by adding the real rotary sound to an excellent model. That is one example of hybrid. I cannot sleep until this is realised.
Relentlessly Yours,
to summarize:
1st thing:
The sound from oscillators has to go out to the hw filter then come back to the modular. Easy: Oscillators mix goes to poly out (if you need more voices) from there to output 3 of the modular and out to the filter through an analog out of one of your cards, let's say the Left channel. Then the external filter's output can return to scope through an analog input of the same card, let's say Left in. as back in scope it can be routed to one of the audio inputs of the modular.
This is easy and self explanatory. I can later build a tutorial Patch that has the I/O's connections for external gear.
2nd thing:
You need to modulate the cutoff off the external filter with modulation signals (ramps, envelopes etc) generated in the modular patch.
You can put all your modulation signals in a nice matrix module, so you can store in your presets what do you want to use for modulation of the cutoff and just send the output of this matrix to, let's say, output 4 of the modular.
Now this modulation signal has to reach the filter modulation input, it will be routed out of scope through the other channel (Right) of the analog output.
Now here comes the technical problem you have to solve: the voltage that will be generated at the analog Right output will be too low to fully modulate the filter. It will be something not higher than 1.5 volts.
I think, not as an expert, but just using some logic guessing, that building a small amplification circuit to make the voltage range that's coming out from the analog Right output wider should be very easy for an electronics technician.
I remember many years ago that a friend of mine had built a small circuit to make his bass active spending something like 5 $.
You need a small circuit that makes that 0-1.5 voltage range grow to 0-5 volts or whatever the modulation input of the filter needs. I don't know how this can be done, but I'm sure it must be something really easy for an expert.
the real values of the voltages are unknown to me, also the polarity and anything...what you have to do is to let the technician measure the voltages at the Right analog output while you are sending a slow ramp directly connected to the output (from the modular's output), it will go from a negative to a positive voltage I think.
Then you have to know exactly what voltages are needed to modulate the cutoff of the external filter and ask the technician if he can build a little box with an input and an output that amplifies (and what else needed, rectification maybe? I don't know...he should know, reading the filter specs.) the smaller voltages coming from scope to the higher ones needed for the filter.
This for now.
1st thing:
The sound from oscillators has to go out to the hw filter then come back to the modular. Easy: Oscillators mix goes to poly out (if you need more voices) from there to output 3 of the modular and out to the filter through an analog out of one of your cards, let's say the Left channel. Then the external filter's output can return to scope through an analog input of the same card, let's say Left in. as back in scope it can be routed to one of the audio inputs of the modular.
This is easy and self explanatory. I can later build a tutorial Patch that has the I/O's connections for external gear.
2nd thing:
You need to modulate the cutoff off the external filter with modulation signals (ramps, envelopes etc) generated in the modular patch.
You can put all your modulation signals in a nice matrix module, so you can store in your presets what do you want to use for modulation of the cutoff and just send the output of this matrix to, let's say, output 4 of the modular.
Now this modulation signal has to reach the filter modulation input, it will be routed out of scope through the other channel (Right) of the analog output.
Now here comes the technical problem you have to solve: the voltage that will be generated at the analog Right output will be too low to fully modulate the filter. It will be something not higher than 1.5 volts.
I think, not as an expert, but just using some logic guessing, that building a small amplification circuit to make the voltage range that's coming out from the analog Right output wider should be very easy for an electronics technician.
I remember many years ago that a friend of mine had built a small circuit to make his bass active spending something like 5 $.
You need a small circuit that makes that 0-1.5 voltage range grow to 0-5 volts or whatever the modulation input of the filter needs. I don't know how this can be done, but I'm sure it must be something really easy for an expert.
the real values of the voltages are unknown to me, also the polarity and anything...what you have to do is to let the technician measure the voltages at the Right analog output while you are sending a slow ramp directly connected to the output (from the modular's output), it will go from a negative to a positive voltage I think.
Then you have to know exactly what voltages are needed to modulate the cutoff of the external filter and ask the technician if he can build a little box with an input and an output that amplifies (and what else needed, rectification maybe? I don't know...he should know, reading the filter specs.) the smaller voltages coming from scope to the higher ones needed for the filter.
This for now.
That's What I'm Talkin' 'Bout,
Thanks Alfonso, I know this was extra time and effort on your part. It was much appreciated, and I can now further investigate.
The voltages will be stepped up, or down accordingly to the specifiacations needed. I do have a friend in Illinois who started building synthesizers back in the '70's. I have a good reason to re engage w/ him now. He was the guy who turned me onto ELP back in '72 when I wore a younger mans clothes. We drove my first car to the Emerson, Lake, and Palmer concert at S.I.U. in Edwardsville, Illinois. I will never forget the sound of the Moog Modular 100 series live, it haunts me still.
Thanks Alfonso, I know this was extra time and effort on your part. It was much appreciated, and I can now further investigate.
The voltages will be stepped up, or down accordingly to the specifiacations needed. I do have a friend in Illinois who started building synthesizers back in the '70's. I have a good reason to re engage w/ him now. He was the guy who turned me onto ELP back in '72 when I wore a younger mans clothes. We drove my first car to the Emerson, Lake, and Palmer concert at S.I.U. in Edwardsville, Illinois. I will never forget the sound of the Moog Modular 100 series live, it haunts me still.
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synthetic88
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:48 am
Use your MIDI controller to go to a MIDI/CV converter and SCOPE at the same time. Have the MIDI/CV send Voltage and gate info to your filter. Patch the audio output from SCOPE into the filter. Wouldn't that do it? If you want Flexor modules to send "CV" to your analog modules, the MIDI/CV converter (one you show above) should handle that as well. The Encore Expressionist is another popular choice for modularists.
BTW the MOTM gear is the ultimate modular. Blows the doors off the DotCom modulars, sound and construction-wise. I had a small system for a while and the sound was ridiculously big. Be prepared for a long wait, though. He can take six months or more to deliver, but it's worth it.
BTW the MOTM gear is the ultimate modular. Blows the doors off the DotCom modulars, sound and construction-wise. I had a small system for a while and the sound was ridiculously big. Be prepared for a long wait, though. He can take six months or more to deliver, but it's worth it.
synthetic88, that sounds like a good option, plus you can pick up kenton midi to CV units for peanuts 2nd hand. We've got one of their old old MCVs & it's a great little unit, but probably not as function laden as Scope4live would need.
Also, you just reminded me of a cool feature on the Kenton control freak studio. It's got a 2ch CV>midi converter built in...
Also, you just reminded me of a cool feature on the Kenton control freak studio. It's got a 2ch CV>midi converter built in...
If someone built a MOTM hardware format SHARC - based (new gen) digital OSC bank that was an analogue/digital hybrid it would sell. Taking it further with a powerfull dsp-based hardware module that could run the Creamware / SonicCore modular enviroment including Adern's Flexor & Flexor 3, would be simply insane. A whole digital modular enviroment designed for integration into analogue modulars.
Ok, giving away too many ideas now
Ok, giving away too many ideas now
Finally,
I sparked a debate where I can read your brains a little, and pick a solution.
I would love to see a DSP based Hybrid as well. That dog would be the teacher of hunting techniques.
Paul told me that in September I could expect delivery. That's fine by me, as Solaris is at the top of the list, and I pray John still accepts my payment in advance, all of it, not half, as I could be sidetracked and stricken w/ 3PDS and screw things up.
I Am Fevefish,
I sparked a debate where I can read your brains a little, and pick a solution.
I would love to see a DSP based Hybrid as well. That dog would be the teacher of hunting techniques.
Paul told me that in September I could expect delivery. That's fine by me, as Solaris is at the top of the list, and I pray John still accepts my payment in advance, all of it, not half, as I could be sidetracked and stricken w/ 3PDS and screw things up.
I Am Fevefish,
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synthetic88
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:48 am
They have some digital modules. I'm not sure what digital engine they use, but the Cloud Generator is an interesting digital oscillator module. He's working on a few other digital modules. One of them is apparently covered in blinky lights and will debut in September.Shroomz wrote:If someone built a MOTM hardware format SHARC - based (new gen) digital OSC bank that was an analogue/digital hybrid it would sell.
I had a Kenton Solo, it was very affordable. But the Encore and MOTM converters will have more CV outs for modulating from inside Scope.
The MOTM-650 4-Channel MIDI-CV converter is actually an incredible piece of gear just looking at the specs. Laden with features & I noticed that with a firmware upgrade it gets midi-clocked lfos which is cool !! ..& I think this module in particular is well worth the money if you have Scope + a MOTM format analogue modular of whatever sort (Moog, Oakley, .com etc)
very awsome stuff
Scope, Android, Web, PC Plugins and Sounds:
http://www.oceanswift.net
Music
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/
http://www.oceanswift.net
Music
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/
It's gonna be the MOTM stuff. The guy is too helpful and even offers competitors as cheaper solutuions w/o knocking their quality. That's a class act.
My only problem is that a high polyphony modular is high dollar as well.
I will let you know how it goes.
I am like a kid in a candy store with all of this stuff. Thank God my girl understands my vices.
My only problem is that a high polyphony modular is high dollar as well.
I will let you know how it goes.
I am like a kid in a candy store with all of this stuff. Thank God my girl understands my vices.
Seems as though I hit a nerve with hardware modular users.
They claim it can't possibly sound as good as the " Real Analog " modulars. I then pointed out that the best parts of the analog were going to be used with the best parts of the virtual, as I believe in Scope's ability to do just that, and I have proven that with audio hybrids, i.e. CW's leslie emulation extends the doppler effect when used with a real rotary cabinet live, and more recently have added the Oberheim Echoplex to an AUX where my analog SE-1x is layered w/ Modular, C4T, and Pro One Vrs. 3. This was only an unattainable dream years ago, but now a reality. So they can suck my ass.
The parts are ordered, and for the first time in years I am in debt for something I cannot recieve until October.
But this is my quest. I must have the FATTEST sound.
So It Shall Be Written, So It Shall Be Done,
They claim it can't possibly sound as good as the " Real Analog " modulars. I then pointed out that the best parts of the analog were going to be used with the best parts of the virtual, as I believe in Scope's ability to do just that, and I have proven that with audio hybrids, i.e. CW's leslie emulation extends the doppler effect when used with a real rotary cabinet live, and more recently have added the Oberheim Echoplex to an AUX where my analog SE-1x is layered w/ Modular, C4T, and Pro One Vrs. 3. This was only an unattainable dream years ago, but now a reality. So they can suck my ass.
The parts are ordered, and for the first time in years I am in debt for something I cannot recieve until October.
But this is my quest. I must have the FATTEST sound.
So It Shall Be Written, So It Shall Be Done,