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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:26 pm
by Henrik
Hi,
I was trying to recreate the original Pro5 patches on Noah Profit 5. The results sounded really strange so I looked into the service manual for Prophet 5.
Filter and Amplifier Attack, Decay, Release on Noah's goes from 0 = 1ms, 5 = 8.192sec, 10 = 16.392sec lineary.
Original Pro5 has a different control:
0 = ~1 ms
6 = 1 sec
10 = "greater than 20 sec"
As I remember it then its more like an exponential function and not lineary.
Reference:
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.e ... _04_06.gif
This means that we can not reuse original Patch sheets without making a conversion table or Creamware to correct the controls.
I don't really know which is "best" but with only a 128 level control (why not use the 16k range instead?) it might not be posible to "exactly" reproduce original Pro5 patches.
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:52 am
by kybernaut_01
The question here would be: what original P5? Revision? Basically, CW claims that its emulations allow to use your old patch sheets...
The Profit-5/Pro-12 is modeled after a Rev2 Prophet-5 (this is at least what CW says, even if magazines use to write that it's a Rev3 model, as SoS recently did... )
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:40 am
by Anna Lüse
to use your old blank patch sheets...
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:04 am
by Shroomz~>
photocopies maybe, but nobody in their right mind is gonna start scribbling on original Prophet patch sheets unless they've kept them when selling a Prophet .. and even then it would be sacrilage.
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:22 am
by Henrik
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:47 am
by kybernaut_01
Henrik, not sure if you're are interpreting these dtata sheets correctly...
As far as I understand it, there are two voltages (not the times!) that are exponential:
- the input voltage(s) from the pot
- the output voltage of the EG chip
What comes into play in the first case is0 that a typical analog potentiometer outputs an exponential voltage when turned in a "linear fashion". I hope you understand what I mean.
kybernaut
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:59 am
by Henrik
I see where you are going
Yeah the Z80 reads the pot (being linear or exponetial or whatever), converts the read value to something that controls the EG chip. So I can't really use the datasheet of the EG chip without also looking at what the Z80 software behaves on whatever it reads from the pot
So what I am interesting in here is:
Does Noah's Pro5 A D and R match with the behaviour of the original Prophet 5
a) Rev3 is not linear (0=0.001s, 6=1s, 10=20s)
2) Noah is linear (0=0.001s, 0.6 = ~1s, 5 = ~8s, 10 = ~16s)
Ã) Rev 2 and Rev 3 both have EG chips with exponential translation of control voltage to time of the A, D and R timings.
Does anyone have a real Prophet 5 and can compare against Noah Pro5? I can't make any original Prophet 5 presets sound correct unless I adjust the ADR pots a lot.
So my plan was to understand how to translate original Prophet 5 patch-data (midi sysex) into Noah Pro5 midi CC# data and write a program that sends those original Prophet5 patches to Noah.
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:53 am
by kybernaut_01
I see
While I don't have a original Prophet -5, I can tell you something else:
Rumour has it, that Anna Lüse from CWA recreated the original Prophet patches for the Pro~12. This probably means taht some adjustment ist necessary due to subtle part variances or whatever.
But still, CW's claim of correctly interpreting patch sheets is there. I also remember that some testers from certain magazines verified that with Minimax and Pro~One and reported that it works pretty accurate. So why should this not be the case for Pro~12?
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:59 am
by Shroomz~>
Check out John Bowen's new semi-modular prophet if you haven't already. He's posted a screenshot .. <a href="
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 0">HERE</a>
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:01 am
by Henrik
Okay all this seems to be a User Interface issue. I trusted the numbers written by the NOAH PC SW.
Doing some quick oscilloscope measurements with Amplitude Attack:
1-2 ms at 0
1 sec at 5.8 or so (so close enough to real prophet 5 specification)
around 16 secs at 10.
so sorry for the disturbance. It seems to work quite close enough. Phew
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:21 am
by kybernaut_01
On 2006-06-15 10:01, Henrik wrote:
Okay all this seems to be a User Interface issue.
True, the UI is only a very rough representation of the current knob value. There only a handful of possible positions and each of them stands for a certain sub-range in the full 0-127 range.
