SFP 4.x won't complete installation in OS9.2.2

Doug Conner · Post by **Doug Conner** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:47 am

Using SFP 4.0 disk, when installing SFP (whether using 4.5 upgrade allkeys, or previous allkeys), installation runs fine to end of progress bar, then SFP freezes the OS.

Issue is consistent.

Pulsar II Plus, SCOPE SRB, ADAT Sync Plate. Using G4,1.25 single processor, 512 MB factory installed RAM, OS 9.2.2, no other programs installed on computer.

[ This Message was edited by: Doug Conner on 2006-06-03 11:08 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Doug Conner on 2006-06-03 11:09 ]

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:20 pm

Not using Mac, but you could replace the default Scope project file (or startproject) with another one, then load Scope again to exclude a broken project. The default projects, on PC, are in c:sfpappsfpapp , check for StartProject.pro and NewProject.pro. Rename them temporarily, and put another project there and reload Scope, just to check...

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:19 pm

Hi Doug

First try to rebuild the desktop (start up the computer holding option+command till the chime or try the TechToolLite). If it doesn't help try a diagnostic software like Disk Warrior or Norton Disk Doctor to repair any damaged file (perhaps, like atom said, the default project is somehow damaged)

Doug Conner · Post by **Doug Conner** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:07 am

Thanks for responding, Samplaire (& at0m).

I owe you an apology. I'm retarded. I inadvertently used the term "load" instead of "install". Sorry, I substitute teach in the ghetto, and was writing this while dealing with a madhouse full of gansters.

Anyway, if you're still speaking to me, prior to submitting to the forum, I had wiped the drive down to 0&1s, then installed the OS and SFP only. Well, to be exact, I've tried to install SFP, but this is where the issue takes place. It's when I'm attempting to initially install SFP onto the computer. Everything would seem normal during the installation, but at the end of the installation, when the progress bar would show completion, SFP would freeze the OS.

However, I've rebuilt the desktop, and run Disk Warrior again. This time during installation, upon copying the last file (Master Verb Pro.dev) and with the progress bar showing completion, the OS has not frozen, but SFP just sits there showing me the completed progress bar, leaving me only the option to "Cancel".

Doug Conner · Post by **Doug Conner** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:34 am

Actually, I left the SFP installation running to see if it would complete, but after waiting 10 minutes, the OS froze again.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:00 am

Doug, which Mac model is it exactly - Quicksilver or the last series with the 'Turbo PSU', aka 'Mirror Door' if I remember right.
I suspect the latter as it can be a true bitch under various conditions.
On an OS9 only Mac there is no need to wipe the HD - do you have a double boot system with OSX also installed ?
Have you tried to install from the HD instead of the CD Rom ?

cheers, Tom

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:12 pm

Astro, this 1.25 is the MDD (Mirrored Drive Door), QuickSilvers are max 933. At my work there are 3 G4s and 2 of them are QS and the last one is MDD 1.25 and it's awful and freezes very often

Doug, some questions are on my toungue tip: Have you disabled RamDisk, virtual memory and appletalk? they are not music applications friendly. Also: remove double processor support files from the extensions folder - you have to do it manually. And finally, if you don't need it - disable the classic support in OSX and trash (first just remove and after tests - trash) Classic and Classic support files from OS9.

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2006-06-03 14:16 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:48 am

asked the model just to make sure there isn't a CPU upgrade installed... but Quicksilvers are rarely mentioned in context with problems - and I can confirm your observation - the MDD is the only(!) Mac I'm having trouble with in the office.

But more important is that when it messes things, it's unexplainable - like the installation above.
Or like it insisted on 'special software' needed to read my USB stick, which ALL other machines, Mac or Wintel and even the oldes iMac accepted.

@Doug is the 'factory installed Ram' really Apple 'labeled' ?
It may help to put it in another slot (or just plug it out and in again) - afaik thers is a tiny deviation in size that makes the 'Apple Dimms' special. I only remember it vaguely, but the machine had serious trouble with (correctly speced) regular Dimms.

cheers, Tom

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:32 pm

Yes, the MDD at my work was even less stabile with a memory stick provided by an authorized ProTools reseller (and so we trusted it). We had to change it 2 times to make the computer workable. So Tom's question is very important, Doug.

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2006-06-04 13:32 ]

Doug Conner · Post by **Doug Conner** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:32 pm

Samplaire is correct, it is the MDD.

If by "installing from the HD", you meant to drag the SFP file off the CD onto the desktop, then install, I have tried that; the SFP installer won't open from the desktop, only from the CD.

Haven't worked in OS9 in so long. Thanks for reminding me. RamDisk was off, but I had to turn off AppleTalk and Virtual Memory. HOWEVER, Samplaire, I was unable to locate an extension for double processor support. Any idea what it's name is?

Astro, I've partitioned a 75 GB HD; giving about 55 GB to OSX, and 20 GB to OS9 & SCOPE. Previously, however, I had both X & 9 on the same non-partitioned drive and still had the same installation issue. At any rate, Apple chose to make the 1.25 MDD bootable only to OS 9.2.2 (not 9.2.1 - won't even recognize it), and since Apple never created a bootable/installable 9.2.2 disk, I had no choice but to install OSX first, then add 9, using their original install software, as per their procedure.

Anyway, I restarted into OSX and searched the Applications folder on the OS9 partition: (1) found a folder entitled "Classic" at System>Library>Classic...the folder was empty, but I trashed it anyway;
(2) In the Applications and the Applications (OS 9) folders, I was unable to locate anything related to Classic. I apologize for having to ask, but if you could give more details about what I'm looking for, that would be appreciated.

RAM: Hynix Korea HYMD264646B8J-J AA-A. I suspect this is not Apple RAM. In any case, I pulled it out of the #1 position and installed it back in #2.

I've now started up in OS9. Still won't open the SFP installer from the HD, so doing it from the CD. Am now installing, and SFP in copying files and progressing. Fingers are crossed. And once again we come to the end of the progress bar and sit. OS is not yet frozen, but give it a few minutes...

So, to recap those recommendations of yours I've NOT done: (1) disabling Classic support in OSX (don't know where to locate the disable feature); (2) disable double processor support (can't locate it); and (3) still using existing Korean RAM.

Okay, so it looks like the next step is to purchase a new RAM stick....a nice expensive one tested by Apple. I'm afraid this whole Creamware thing is turning into a bottomless money pit, and all I want to do is hear some synthesizers. Perhaps one day...

I appreciate you guys, Simplaire & Astroman. Sincerely!!! Thank you!

[ This Message was edited by: Doug Conner on 2006-06-06 19:35 ]

Post by **garyb** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:17 pm

whatever trouble and money it costs you to use those synths, it'll be a fraction of the cost for the individual real synths, so be patient, it does work normally....

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:01 am

The double (multi) processor extensions are invisible by Extensions Manager so you have to locate them manually: system folder / extensions / multiprocessing / apple cpu plugin - put it in the unused extensions.The classic support is less important - you can disable it via OSXs System Preferences/Classic support (or similar, I don't have a mac under my fingertips now). Blaming CW is not the case. It's probably the installer cd responsible for your problems or apple related things rather than CW. Perhaps the cd is corrupted??? If you have a fast internet connection just try to d/l the 4.0 software from here

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2006-06-07 01:06 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:36 am

On 2006-06-06 19:32, Doug Conner wrote:
...Okay, so it looks like the next step is to purchase a new RAM stick....a nice expensive one tested by Apple. ...

that's the point that really s*cks - it isn't even expensive, in my case it was just 10 Euro.
That '10 Euro difference' caused problems in the regular office work (not quantifiable anymore), 2 hours from my side to find the problem, reinstall and test applications and another trip to the dealer to get new memory

If I were in your position I'd sell the MDD. As one of the last machines that boot OS9 it's got a relatively good resale value...
A Quicksilver or even Sawtooth (possibly with a Sonnet CPU upgrade) are much more reliable - in case you want to stick with OS9 and Scope.

The other alternative is either a cheap PC or Mac running SFP that's connected via Adat to a regular OSX based Mac.
There's no OSX support for SFP in the short term to be expected, though chances have (theoretically) improved since Apple went Intel.
The 2nd system is rather cheap as it doesn't contain much, but one or two additional Adat interfaces and a monitor/keyboard switch add to the costs.

It's basically what I'm doing (though I'm not on Mac) - I find it much more convenient to have the DAW stuff away from my internet and developement machine. If I hit twice fnct-scroll-1 SFP appears, fnct-scroll-2 brings Win2k back.
The old machine is a basically a 100 Euro Pentium 3, but since it ran so nicely I've spiced it up with a fanless PSU, a 2GB Flashdisk and the fastest CPU and Ram version - just to have those parts as long as they were still available.
The effective difference in processing (regarding SFP) is marginal to non existent - I admit that I did expect more, but it doesn't hurt either as ther's a couple of native apps on the machine that do benefit from the 'luxory part' of the installation.

Not that I want to promote this type of solution - it's just to point out that a first glance inconvenenience might actually turn into an advantage.
It depends on your preferred way of working and of course if space is available.
At least those boxes can be damn silent - a Sawtooth 400MHZ can be operated with just the PSU fan (I have one in the office with the fans off for 6 years)

If you intend to invest into the MDD and keep it, better get a Gigabyte of memory as it will pay off under OSX - it's mem appetite seems endless. It runs with less, but then with less performance

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-06-07 01:37 ]

Doug Conner · Post by **Doug Conner** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:19 pm

I ordered and installed two sticks of 512k Apple RAM, and placed the dual processor extension in the Unused Extension folder, and performed the SFP installation from my extisting CW 4.0 disk. Issue not resolved. However, after leaving the computer to sit for half and hour, everything still froze, except......oddly......the SFP curser can still be moved around. It won't do anything, but it moves. Tried "Force Quit", which brought up the "Force Quit" screen and I was allowed to click "okay", but then THAT window froze.

Tried "Force Quit" again, and received a window "Indexing Progress"; "Creating Index of SCOPE". During it's progress, I received an error message: "The file 'Internet Preferences' was damaged too badly to recover.The file has been reverted to default preferences. A copy of the damaged file has been placed in the Trash." (Seems odd because the OS was newly installed and no setting made to Internet Preferences.) I clicked OKAY, and now it says there's 3 hours remaining to finish writing the index.

After indexing, I opened the SFP launch icon, and received the following error: "The application 'SCOPE Platform' could not be opened because 'alloc' could not be found."

Assuming there was an issue during the installation, now I'm trying the suggestion to use a downloaded version of SFP 4.0. Have downloaded "Scope4forMAC.ZIP.zip". Performed the download using Explorer, booted to the OS9 partition. When I unzipped it, the SCOPE platform installer came up as a 4k Simple Text document, (with obviously garbled text).

I didn't think it would work, but I tried performing the same download booted to an OSX drive. I unzipped the download in OSX as well, and could see a proper SCOPE platform installer icon. But after dragging the folder into the OS9 drive, rebooting to OS9, and attempting to open the installer, it was an unrecognized file.

I'm attempting the download of "Scope4forMAC.ZIP.zip" again, booted in OS9, just in case something happened during the download. But I wanted to respond to you guys.

Post by **hubird** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:39 pm

bussy with installing a G4 MDD dual 1,25, everything perfect sofar.
Scope no problem at all, Asio and OMS perfectly working in cooperation with Cubase.
Most important thing: you really have to have the right OS9.2.2.
It's really an issue, I had to ask people on the internet as I had problems finding the right OS, someone knew what was up and informed me accurat.
Dunno if this is relevant for your machine.
I got a dvd with a System folder and a Application folder, I just had to copy those two files on the empty harddisk to get a working system.
You can pm me for download if you would like to try that 'cd'.

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2006-06-20 07:54 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:38 am

great offer, Huub.

on a Mac under OS9 there really is no 'install process', it's just a sequence of copying files to the appropriate folder, which can be done manually if one knows the location.
In most cases that's restricted to just extensions like 'alloc' (usually pointed out in a readme file).

The MDD IS a bitch (mine just learned a new trick to ignore the software open of the 2nd DVD, which it had done previously) and the CWA 'installer' isn't the most reliable thing either.

Hubird's installer obviously worked - otherwise a copy of the complete sfp folder with stock devices is also possible - just replace scope.rgy from the sfp/app/bin folder if it already imported the allkeys.
(that file is originally empty at the start of the install - instead of 'allkeys' one could as well keep a copy of a previous .rgy and use it to replace the empty file.)

cheers, tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-06-20 01:48 ]

Post by **hubird** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:11 am

thanks Tom.
Another thing that kept me bussy for a while, is that you must install OMS first, then Scope.
OMS was in no way able to load the SFP OMS driver after copying by hand.
I then re-installed SFP without renewing the allkeys (as the installer showed them already) , this way not touching my personnal SFP customizing (plugs Devices menu, presets).
But ok, this has probably nothing to do with your problem Doug

Hope you find out, my problem solving scenarios are very restricted, even considering it's on mac.

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2006-06-20 08:14 ]

Doug Conner · Post by **Doug Conner** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:37 am

Dear hubird,

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. Am overburdened with work and haven't had time to even check the website.

So...the right OS 9.2.2? I went around in circles with Apple, until they finally sent me the original startup disks that were supposed to have come with the 1.25 MDD. And I'm not exactly clear about the procedure you mention of copying the System and Apps folders first to the HD, THEN installing?

Anyway, if your offer is still open, I would love to access the version of the OS you are using. Thanks.

Doug

Doug Conner · Post by **Doug Conner** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:42 am

Hubird & Astroman:

Wow. Thanks for the detailed input. But....I'm a bit too thick to figure out the exact procedure to do what you've described. Sorry to be such a pain.

mr_chombee · Post by **mr_chombee** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:37 am

I'm new to this forum, so first of all: hi everyone!

@dough conner:

I have recently purchased a pulsar I card through ebay and I stumbled across the same installation problems, but I finally managed to get scope 4.0 to work. it has obviously nothing to do with you OS version, nor your ram sticks, but moreover with the terrible mac support of creamware.

the ebay guy had lost the mac installation cd, so I downloaded it from the creamware server. strangely enough it is a zip file and even if you get the file opened in os9, it does not include a working setup file.

funnily I found another scope 4.0 file on the creamware website here:
http://creamware.de/index.php?lang=en&s ... nu=support
(scroll down to "scope 4.0 mac")

this file should obviously be a proper sit file, BUT the link does not work! haha, good one, creamware!

after some research I found out, that the file indeed exists somewhere on the creamware server, but under a completely different path. however, you can download the file here:
http://creamware.de/download/software/s ... orm4.0.sit

ok, now you have a proper sit file with a working installer, but now comes the tricky part! this sit file seems to include some corrupted files - couldn't figure out which exactly, but it seems to be a certain dev file, which gets installed at the very end of the installation procedure and forces the installer to freeze! I assume that this sit file includes the same (corrupted) data which you have on your installation cd.

here's what I did: I expanded the sit file, then manually removed all folders which contain any device or preset files (can't remember which folders exactly - you might try by your own). finally I opened the zip file (the one that you can find "officially" on the cw website) and copied all the missing folders back into the expanded sit. and bingo!

the installer successfully worked and scope is running like a charm! the only thing that I still couldn't figure out is OMS. OMS tells me that the creamware OMS driver cannot be opened. the driver file didn't worked from both archives, neither the sit, nor the zip.

I am wondering if creamware knows, that they are offering their products to mac os9 users?